[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Agreed! A real shame.
That Porsche/Audi/Toyota era had everything that I needed for my endurance fix.

Totally agree. One of my abiding memories of that era was each year at Arnage corner at Le Mans, watching those rocket ships blast away at ludicrous speed......

Originally Posted by Spyderman

In keeping with the nostalgia theme, I miss Arakis (my nemesis) and my old friends The Badger, Gustavobamba (who had his first child at the start of this thread and that same child will now be 10 years old), andDario911. Also miss gwyllion, who’s posts were always inciteful…..And many others.
They really were good times!

I can't speak for the others, but I exchange messages with The Badger on a regular basis on FB.

[Spyderman]

Please send him my regards!

[Spyderman]

This is an interesting video with Timo and Walter Rohl and the man himself Norbert Singer. An insight into the 936 and the 924 GT at Le Mans:
https://youtu.be/kuBqXpqruhk

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Totally agree. One of my abiding memories of that era was each year at Arnage corner at Le Mans, watching those rocket ships blast away at ludicrous speed......




I can't speak for the others, but I exchange messages with The Badger on a regular basis on FB.

I can confirme the excitement... my son is 9 years old and we recently agree in both going to Le Mans in 2024 (both the 1st time). My only regret is that Porsche is going LMDh route... I would love to see a proper LMH. Nontheless still a massive Porsche fan ???

[gustavobamba]

I can confirme the excitement... my son is 9 years old and we recently agree in both going to Le Mans in 2024 (both the 1st time). My only regret is that Porsche is going LMDh route... I would love to see a proper LMH. Nontheless still a massive Porsche fan.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

I can confirme the excitement... my son is 9 years old and we recently agree in both going to Le Mans in 2024 (both the 1st time). My only regret is that Porsche is going LMDh route... I would love to see a proper LMH. Nontheless still a massive Porsche fan.

It good to hear from you Gustavo!

I have the same regret about LMDh......and I'm not sure Porsche (at least those that want to win) will not end up having the same regret.

[S griffin]

For me Porsche are sportscar racing and it just wouldn't be the same without them. Whether it's GTs or Prototypes, it's always good to see them competing at Le Mans

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by S griffin

For me Porsche are sportscar racing and it just wouldn't be the same without them. Whether it's GTs or Prototypes, it's always good to see them competing at Le Mans

I think we agree. The difference is that both Gustavo and I would like to see them in the LMH class. In other words: We want to see a real Porsche.

[Spyderman]

When I was looking back to the start of this thread, I was amused to see that we had a discussion on what we thought the name for the 919 would be.
In keeping with that tradition, lets start our speculation on what we think the name for the LMDh Porsche will be.

I start the ball rolling:

1 - Fake Porsche.
2 - 229 (nearly a quarter of the 919)
3 - Semi-Porsche
4 - Powered by Porsche
5 - Cash Cow Porsche
6 - Not really a Porsche

Feel free to chime in.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I think we agree. The difference is that both Gustavo and I would like to see them in the LMH class. In other words: We want to see a real Porsche.

I see where you’re coming from, but a legendary 911 in the GT class is enough for me. Each to their own

[gustavobamba]

My secret desire will be: Porsche running in LMDh with private TEAMS... and in 2023 full factory with LMH

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

My secret desire will be: Porsche running in LMDh with private TEAMS... and in 2023 full factory with LMH

Yes that would be great, but if there is the remotest of chances of that ever happening (and I would say that the chance is around zero) it would happen way after 2023.

[Pandamasque]

"Way after 2023" I doubt we'll see cars running at Le Mans. Not cars, as we know them anyway. I that point who cars what luxury brand name is on the bodywork, Porsche, Ferrari or Louis Vuitton powered by Xiaomi?
Right now I'm torn between scepticism/disappointment about the converged hypercars and the idea that I should try to enjoy this little era, because it really is the last hurrah, even if a slightly muted one. Once it's all EV, I'll probably stop following racing, just like I stopped caring about most of what's happening on the road car side of things.

The first iteration of a spec EV top class is supposed to debut just one year after LMDh. From then on hypercars will be gradually phased out. And then it'll be the turn of ICE GT cars.

Originally Posted by Spyderman

When I was looking back to the start of this thread, I was amused to see that we had a discussion on what we thought the name for the 919 would be.
In keeping with that tradition, lets start our speculation on what we think the name for the LMDh Porsche will be.

I start the ball rolling:

1 - Fake Porsche.
2 - 229 (nearly a quarter of the 919)
3 - Semi-Porsche
4 - Powered by Porsche
5 - Cash Cow Porsche
6 - Not really a Porsche

Feel free to chime in.

Perhaps they'll take a leaf out of Peugeot's nomenclature (wouldn't be the first time!) and name it 919x0

[TF110]

I too wish Porsche went the LMH route but I think saving money by 'splitting the bill' with its VW siblings was too enticing. Maybe a decision by someone(s) with money on their mind first caused it, or they really liked the idea of customers? Either way, glad theyre returning home.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by TF110

I too wish Porsche went the LMH route but I think saving money by 'splitting the bill' with its VW siblings was too enticing. Maybe a decision by someone(s) with money on their mind first caused it, or they really liked the idea of customers? Either way, glad theyre returning home.

Agreed, but customers and money are not unrelated. I think there may be a vision held at Porsche (and by many other people/fans and entities) to usher in a kind of Group C era. I think some at Porsche imagine future races having 8-10 Porsches competing of which 6-8 being customer cars.
They may have forgotten that the 956/962 were absolutely dominant at the time, and that's why they had the customers.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Agreed, but customers and money are not unrelated. I think there may be a vision held at Porsche (and by many other people/fans and entities) to usher in a kind of Group C era. I think some at Porsche imagine future races having 8-10 Porsches competing of which 6-8 being customer cars.

Wouldn't that be terrific?

[gert]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

They may have forgotten that the 956/962 were absolutely dominant at the time, and that's why they had the customers.

To have customers, the car also has to be
* affordable
* serviceable
* not too complex for customers to run it
* driver-friendly

Which of these boxes will be ticked by an LMH and which ny an LMDh ?

[canaglia]

I honestly can't see very realistically private teams paying porsche to get one or two porsche lmdh to be then kicked by the porsche work team using the same car...

I think porsche will enter only IMSA and WEC work teams for the one or two years to then officially retire and let private teams buy lmdh cars supporting them with their drivers and engineers. Basically what happens with their gt3 program.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by canaglia

I honestly can't see very realistically private teams paying porsche to get one or two porsche lmdh to be then kicked by the porsche work team using the same car...

I think porsche will enter only IMSA and WEC work teams for the one or two years to then officially retire and let private teams buy lmdh cars supporting them with their drivers and engineers. Basically what happens with their gt3 program.

Porsche is still planning on offering customer cars from year one. And there appears to be more interest than can actually be manufactured!

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_US/2...msa-24380.html

https://racer.com/2021/06/26/porsche...-lmdh-rollout/

Asked about Porsche’s intent to kick off its LMDh program by supporting sales of the new car, Zurlinden suggests its order book is full for 2023. With two factory entries set for IMSA and two for the WEC, rumors of eight total cars being made available for the debut season continue to make the rounds.

“It’s still our plan to have customers from the first year,” he continued. “We have many requests. We have many discussions. But I don’t think there is really any limit of the number of cars over from 2024 onwards. Let’s see what’s possible. And if anyone is interested, you can always contact us.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by gert

To have customers, the car also has to be
* affordable
* serviceable
* not too complex for customers to run it
* driver-friendly

Which of these boxes will be ticked by an LMH and which ny an LMDh ?

So in what way does this go against what I have written? Its obvious that they went the LMDh route in order to provide an "affordable" customer product.
This does not mean that I need to be a fan of the product nor does it mean that the product will be a success in the long run. Why buy Porsche (which will not be cheep) if one can get the same performance (and thus similar outcomes) from any other manufacturer ?

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by canaglia

I honestly can't see very realistically private teams paying porsche to get one or two porsche lmdh to be then kicked by the porsche work team using the same car...

I think porsche will enter only IMSA and WEC work teams for the one or two years to then officially retire and let private teams buy lmdh cars supporting them with their drivers and engineers. Basically what happens with their gt3 program.

They ran factory entries in the Group C era

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by gert

To have customers, the car also has to be
* affordable
* serviceable
* not too complex for customers to run it
* driver-friendly

Which of these boxes will be ticked by an LMH and which ny an LMDh ?

Good question!

I keep repeating this, but no one hears me. An LMH can be everything an LMDh is, but doesn't have to have the hybrid system. Which means it can be even less expensive. And at the same time it has the freedom to look more unique at no extra cost, which gives the car more cache with fans and collectors, which boosts the car's residual value, which in turn makes it more attractive for customer teams. I'm yet to see anything to suggest an LMH cannot use the same suppliers and partially same designs, if not exactly the same tub as LMDh.
The only real advantage of LMDh (in America) is everyone's suspicion that IMSA's BoP will subtly, yet deliberately, screw all the "not-invented here" cars.

And yet, fans and "experts" alike keep repeating the "LMDh = less costly route" mantra on and on. They just repeat it without giving it much thought because someone with vested interests said so.
Case in point:

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Its obvious that they went the LMDh route in order to provide an "affordable" customer product.

Originally Posted by canaglia

I honestly can't see very realistically private teams paying porsche to get one or two porsche lmdh to be then kicked by the porsche work team using the same car...

Well, it reports are correct, Porsche are actually counting on having as many customer cars as works cars in year one.

[canaglia]

good to know that

[TF110]

I think LMDH is (more) affordable for Porsche because the chassis is going to be shared between brands in the VW stable. So it seems that the price is less because they don't have to do the biggest part of constructing a car all on their own. It may be that they have a big say on how the multimatic is designed, but Audi will also run it so theres a cost cut right there vs their own bespoke LMH.

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Well, it reports are correct, Porsche are actually counting on having as many customer cars as works cars in year one.

Not the case - maximum 3-4 customer chassis available in year one from Multimatic afaik