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Old 9 Dec 2003, 11:57 (Ref:807390)   #91
Michael Oliver
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
Michael,

The Rosso Bianco photo was posted on the net in early December, the comment being that the guy had just come back from his "last visit to Germany", but I don't know when the photo was actually taken.

I noticed the splitter and the open-ended rear bodywork, so it seemed likely that it was the Marsh car. I issed the cockpit mirror details though!

However, I don't know when the Broman photo was taken. I assumed it was taken some time ago?

Now about this Italian car...
Indeed!

Did you see what I meant about the roll-hoop on the Broman car/Rouveyran car?

Cheers

Michael
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Old 9 Dec 2003, 12:21 (Ref:807405)   #92
Jeremy Jackson
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I do see the difference in roll hoops now, but I wouldn't have picked it up if you hadn't spelled it out for me!

Cheers

jeremy
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Old 9 Dec 2003, 13:30 (Ref:807459)   #93
Michael Oliver
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
I do see the difference in roll hoops now, but I wouldn't have picked it up if you hadn't spelled it out for me!

Cheers

jeremy
Glad you could see it! It is quite difficult to explain but I certainly think it is unique. In my (albeit relatively limited) experience, roll-over hoops are the sort of thing that don't tend to get changed that often on a car - unless they have been damaged in an accident - and are far less likely to change than bodywork, wheels etc. So I think this is an interesting identifying feature.

Cheers

Michael
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Old 9 Dec 2003, 22:44 (Ref:807873)   #94
Kojima_KE007
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Having seen the picture of the T280 that is in Rosso Bianco (thanks very much for that Jeremy! ) and read your posts, it is highly likely that the one in Germany (Rosso Bianco) is the chassis number 04. (Does everyone agree with this?)

The other thing that is bothering me is, does anybody know which chassis Bonnier was killed in for sure?

Regarding the "chassis in Italy" comment that I made earlier, it came from a person who knows a thing or two about Lolas out of nowhere... so I can't really say anything on that. I will speak with that person again and see if I can get the details behind that comment.

Do any of you have any pictures of T280s? I think it would help if we could all see the same pictures. So I post a picture of the chassis 03 in action (sorry for the bad quality...) driven by Noritake Takahara (not that it helps much as we know that our associate owns it...). It is in white but was later painted into red as it was sponsored by Coca-Cola for the last few races of 1972 Grand Champion series.
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Old 10 Dec 2003, 13:33 (Ref:808304)   #95
Michael Oliver
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kojima_KE007
Having seen the picture of the T280 that is in Rosso Bianco (thanks very much for that Jeremy! ) and read your posts, it is highly likely that the one in Germany (Rosso Bianco) is the chassis number 04. (Does everyone agree with this?)

The other thing that is bothering me is, does anybody know which chassis Bonnier was killed in for sure?

Regarding the "chassis in Italy" comment that I made earlier, it came from a person who knows a thing or two about Lolas out of nowhere... so I can't really say anything on that. I will speak with that person again and see if I can get the details behind that comment.

Do any of you have any pictures of T280s? I think it would help if we could all see the same pictures. So I post a picture of the chassis 03 in action (sorry for the bad quality...) driven by Noritake Takahara (not that it helps much as we know that our associate owns it...). It is in white but was later painted into red as it was sponsored by Coca-Cola for the last few races of 1972 Grand Champion series.
Kojima

I am pretty sure too now in my mind that the car in Rosso Bianco is 04, but I guess you can never be 100%!!!

Thanks for the photo. I have accumulated a lot of T280 pics (including 10 of the Takahara car) but don't think I am able to post them as I've never successfully managed to attach an image - don't you need a website or something to host them? I could email them to you if you send me a private message with your address.

I think it is generally accepted that JoBo died in HU02. I'm fairly sure that if you look at a photo of the other Ecurie Bonnier car (I have a picture of Larrousse in it during the race)it has the distinctive diagonal roll-hoop brace that I was talking about which identifies HU01 from the other chassis. HU03 was already in Japan by the time Le Mans took place, while HU04 was debuted by Carlos Gaspar the weekend after Le Mans, IIRC.

Like Jeremy, I'd be very interested to hear about the 'Italian connection'. Incidentally, I don't know if you have seen the photo of the Ulf Broman car (which I believe to be HU01, see my messages from yesterday) but this has a number of decals on it with Italian connections. For example, there is one for the Lauro Restaurant in Modena, a Ferrari sticker, plus several others such as USAG - (tools maybe?), AGB and an unknown logo of a red flag with an 'S' on it, perhaps suggesting that the owner prior to Broman was an Italian or raced the car in Italy.

I think it is almost certain that an Italian did drive HU01 (Ciro Nappi, 1978 Monza 1,000kms, DNQ) but I understand that he was from Naples so I don't know why he would be carrying sponsorship from people around the Modena area but who knows! According to my best estimates, this car was then sold to Pascal Pessiot, who I believe was French and entered the car (reportedly with a Chev engine) for the 1981 Brands Hatch 1,000kms but it did not appear.

Hope this helps but await anything you can dig up with interest!

Michael
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Old 12 Dec 2003, 12:37 (Ref:810094)   #96
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Lola

There is a 280 for sale on the Lola Cars heritage site, no chassis number or much detail.
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Old 12 Dec 2003, 17:22 (Ref:810402)   #97
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I meet last year the owner of this T280 in the Le Mans
Classic event and he telled me that its Chassis number 5 !
I dont know if thats serious and the car on the picture look like a T282 284 or 286 .... For me the chassis 5
( HU 05 ? ) is the T280/2 winner of the Paris 1000 kms 1972
This new car arrived by Bonnier team in September 1972 when
Marianne Bonnier would continue the team (dixit G Larousse)
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Old 12 Dec 2003, 21:32 (Ref:810557)   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alain HACHE
I meet last year the owner of this T280 in the Le Mans
Classic event and he telled me that its Chassis number 5 !
I dont know if thats serious and the car on the picture look like a T282 284 or 286 .... For me the chassis 5
( HU 05 ? ) is the T280/2 winner of the Paris 1000 kms 1972
This new car arrived by Bonnier team in September 1972 when
Marianne Bonnier would continue the team (dixit G Larousse)
Hi Alain

I guess that would make sense, if it was chassis 5. I know that it was reported as a write-off after its Kyalami practice crash but in those days it would have to be pretty badly damaged for them to throw the whole car away, so I guess it was rebuilt at some point...

Therefore, to me, chassis 5 would be a T282, not a T280, although I know they were often referred to as T280/2s, weren't they?
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Old 12 Dec 2003, 22:04 (Ref:810581)   #99
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Alain, Michael,

Seems reasonable to me. The Paris car had the original T280 body, and ran in Ecurie Bonnier's colours, so whether it was called a T282 or T280/2 I'm not sure. Autosport described it as the prototype T282, but since we believe the chassis were numbered sequentially in the T280/2/4/6 series, so I guess it's OK either way...
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Old 4 Jan 2004, 12:12 (Ref:827312)   #100
Alain HACHE
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first T280 race was Buenos aires 1000 kms , french magasine SPORT AUTO telled in n° 121 that R Wissel
had run second chrono behind R Peterson during practice
(Ferrari team agree this chrono )but race organization
refused and give to the Lola 5th place on start grid . During the race Wissel got black flag and must stop but that was again organization's mistake ... Wissel was back on the track but loosed 15 minutes and finished only 7th
This kind of events seem difficult to believe so can somebody confirm ?
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Old 4 Jan 2004, 12:36 (Ref:827322)   #101
Jeremy Jackson
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Alain,

According to Autosport's report, there was an organiser's mix-up regarding the Lolas. The Craft/Larrousse car was black-flagged for leaving the pits under a red light. (They changed their minds, and the car later re-joined).
Larrousse was put in the other car in place of Bonnier, apparently because Bonnier had argued with the organisers over the disqualification, and he was worried "that the orgainsers might take things further"

No mention about the practice you mentioned - Bonnier/Wisell had 5th fastest time, Craft/Larrousse 7th. But Wisell began half a lap late because the car wouldn't start.

Hope you followed that!
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Old 4 Jan 2004, 13:58 (Ref:827371)   #102
Alain HACHE
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yes Jeremy I follow
SPORT AUTO tell exactly: la Lola de Wissel descend son chrono largement en dessous de deux minutes. Elle aurait réalisé le deuxiéme temps d'après ses chronométreurs et ceux de Ferrari . Le chronométrage officiel n'est pas d'accord et ne lui accorde que le cinquiéme temps , ce qui est déj* excellent pour une première sortie etc ....
Jeremy it seem that Bonnier and Ferrari teams was ok about
Wissel lap time in spite of Race Organization .About black flag Jo Bonnier had a great fury and "meet" argentin Police
after dispute with race manager . Probably Jo Bonnier must
give excuse , SPORT AUTO tell no more about that...
* bientôt
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Old 15 Jan 2004, 20:06 (Ref:839545)   #103
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Jean Blaton has/had two cars. The one entered in the Poulain aution in December 1999 (did not sell) was T282 HU6. The other one T286 HU7.
One Swiss Cheese liveried car did indeed pass through the hands of Willy Widar. It came from Switzerland. No idea of the chassis number. No idea where it went afterwards.
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Old 15 Jan 2004, 20:58 (Ref:839598)   #104
Alain HACHE
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thanks PDHM.
who is Willy Widar ? Also (like T280)some T290 from Jo Bonnier's team had swiss cheese livery .
Is the chassis number of J Blaton's T282:HU 06 ? If you sure of that it could be very interessant to understand
the story of the T280 ,282 ,284 ,286 .
* bientôt ALAIN
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Old 15 Jan 2004, 22:07 (Ref:839670)   #105
phdm
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Willy Widar was a Belgian car builder (he built the Lola Mk1 inspired Widi and some other derivatives) and restorer.
He passed away a few years ago. He was well known in the historic racing circles. His name was mentioned in one of the above posts. The car was definitely a DFV engined Lola.

If you look at the Poulain auction catalogue, the Blaton's car is listed as "HU282/6". Amazingly there is also a picture of a chassis plate reading T286 HU7. There are a few pictures of "the" car but one can see one car with chromed roll hoop and yellow rear view mirror and one car with black roll hoop and black rear view mirror. So JB has/had two cars. For what it is worth, the rumour was that one car was suspect.
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