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31 Jul 2010, 10:50 (Ref:2736273) | #1 | ||
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ALLAN MOFFAT RX-7 CHASSIS #s & RACING HISTORY
With the August edition of “Motor” magazine featuring an article on Paul Stubber’s ex-Moffat Rx-7, I feel it’s time to dispel a few myths & list the entire racing history of the Peter Stuyvesant fleet.
Firstly the article features quotes from Paul about his Rx-7 (AMR-002) where he states that the car is “as raced” from the 1983 James Hardie 1000 where Moffat & Katayama finished 2nd. The result is correct but the car is wrong! In fact AMR-002 didn’t even start that year & to add to the confusion, the editor refers to the close up photo of the srutineering labels as verification. However on closer inspection the labels are clearly marked “1984”! Paul’s car ran in 1982, finishing 6th with Katayama & then in 1984 as #42, finishing 3rd with Hansford. In 1983 Moffat & Katayama drove AMR-004, the same left hook Rx-7 that went to Daytona in 1985. By now I’m sure there’s plenty of you disagreeing, however years of research have revealed one distinctive difference between the two LHD chassis……….the wind screen wipers. AMR-002 (Stubber’s) has conventional left hook wipers while AMR-004 has an RHD arrangement. Any year book from the era will verify this & having owned four Series 2 Rx-7s & still owning two, I can confirm that the apertures for the wipers are cast into the body shell & cannot simply be swapped over. Also Paul’s quote that Moffat tried to have the 6 speed gearbox homologated are completely false! IF the 6 speed box was ever used, it was done so without the permission or knowledge of CAMS. A previous owner of AMR-002, Matt Wacker, removed the standard pop up headlights & installed lexan covered racing lights when he competed in the Winton 6 hour enduro. The covers are still on Paul’s car to this day, only they are now covered by the blue Stuyvesant graphics. This lead some to believe that it was the “Daytona” chassis, however this myth in groundless as the actual Daytona car lives 15 minutes from me, still in it’s 24 hour colours. Other mods to AMR-002 (post Moffat) included modifying the radiator position plus the addition of a thermo fan, while a ‘twin’ muffler was installed forward of the rear axle for modern day noise restrictions. Also the leading edges of the rear duck tail spoiler have been shortened for some reason, with period photos revealing the difference, while twin after market mirrors also add to the changes. In conclusion, the car is definitely not “as raced”. CHASSIS #s & RACING HISTORY AMR-001 1981 HANG TEN 400 – 6TH 1981 JAMES HARDIE 1000 – 3RD (MOFFAT/BELL) 1981 SURFERS 300 – 1ST 1981 MACAU GUIA 200 – 1ST (CLASS) #5 1982 ATCC SANDOWN – 4TH 1982 ATCC SYMMONS PLAINS – DNF (ENGINE) 1982 ATCCORANPARK – 8TH 1982 ATCC LAKESIDE – 1ST 1982 AMAROO AMSCAR RND 3 – 1ST 1982 ATCC A.I.R. – DNF (ACCIDENT) 1982 ATCC SURFERS – 1ST 1982 ORANPARK 250 – 14TH 1982 CASTROL 400 – DNF (HANSFORD) #42 1982 JAMES HARDIE 1000 – DNS (HANSFORD/CESARIO) #42 1982 SURFERS 300 – DNF (HANSFORD) #42 1982 A.I.R. 300 – DNF (HANSFORD) #42 1983 ATCC CALDER – 1ST 1983 ATCC SURFERS – 3RD (HANSFORD) #31 1983 ATCCORANPARK – 6TH (HANSFORD) #31 1983 ATCC LAKESIDE – 2ND (HANSFORD) #31 1983 ORANPARK 250 – 5TH (HANSFORD) #42 1983 CASTROL 400 – 7TH (HANSFORD/WALDON) #42 1983 JAMES HARDIE 1000 – DNF (HANSFORD/WALDON) #34 1983 SURFERS 300 – 2ND (HANSFORD) #34 CURRENTLY IN QUEENSLAND UNDERGOING RESTO AMR-002 1982 CASTROL 400 – 1ST 1982 JAMES HARDIE 1000 – 6TH (MOFFAT/KATAYAMA) 1982 SURFERS 300 – 1ST 1982 A.I.R. 300 – 1ST 1983 ATCC SANDOWN – DNF (AXLE) 1983 ATCC SYMMONS PLAINS – 2ND 1984 ORANPARK 250 – 1ST (MOFFAT/HANSFORD) 1984 CASTROL 500 – 2ND (MOFFAT/HANSFORD) 1984 JAMES HARDIE 1000 – 3RD (HANSFORD/MOFFAT) #42 1984 SURFERS 300 – 3RD (HANSFORD) #42 CURRENTLY OWNED BY PAUL STUBBER AMR-003 1983 ATCC WANNEROO – 1ST 1983 ATCC A.I.R. – 2ND 1983 ATCC SURFERS – 1ST 1983 ATCCORANPARK – 1ST 1983 ATCC LAKESIDE – 3RD 1984 ATCC WANNEROO – 1ST 1984 ATCC SURFERS – DNF (ACCIDENT) WRITTEN OFF – MAY 13TH, 1984 AMR-004 1983 CASTROL 400 – 1ST 1983 JAMES HARDIE 1000 – 2ND (MOFFAT/KATAYAMA) 1984 ATCC SANDOWN – 3RD 1984 ATCC SYMMONS PLAINS – DNF (ENGINE) 1984 JAMES HARDIE 1000 – DNF (ENGINE) 1984 SURFERS 300 – 2ND 1985 DAYTONA 24 HOUR – 24TH (MOFFAT/HANSFORD/BARTLETT/McLEOD) PRIVATELY OWNED IN ADELAIDE – CONDITION: “AS RACED” AT DAYTONA |
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31 Jul 2010, 22:52 (Ref:2736780) | #2 | ||
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Very conclusive post OPF. I am assuming that AMR001 is the car that appeared a few years back on ebay and later at the Muscle Car Masters owned by Jack (the French guy). What is the history of that car post 83? Did it race as a Sports Sedan or just sit in a shed? I vaguely recall someone pointing out on here that the stickers appeared incorrect at the time.
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1 Aug 2010, 01:43 (Ref:2736851) | #3 | |||
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Quote:
I viewed it when Jack advertised it on My105 & it looked beaten up, with "non racing" dents in nearly every panel, cracked tail light lenses & generally just a mess........& yes the re-do of the Stuyvesant colour scheme was very poor. Speaking of inaccurate graphics, the bonnet of Paul's Rx-7 needs fixing as it's not even close to the original. |
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3 Aug 2010, 03:08 (Ref:2738548) | #4 | ||
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Thanks for your post Oran Park Forever. I can't believe owners of these cars felt they were entitled to modify it! If its bought for sentimental reasons, it should be kept as raced.
I'd like to see one of the cars in the flesh one day. |
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Phil Mills: 30, 6-Left-Plus Over-Crest-Long, Opens-Over-Crest 100, COW-COW, 100, 6-Left-Minus Extra-Long Fabrizio Giovanardi: I have like a banana - is the yellow car in front - that make me, you know, running like the monkey, running for the banana. When I see yellow in front, I just pushing harder and harder. I want that banana. |
3 Aug 2010, 03:24 (Ref:2738551) | #5 | ||
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How many of these cars were worth not much more than scrap value at the end of the Group C days? Many were carved up for sports sedans, not worrying about the significance of the cars from the day, more that they have something to park their posteriors in, and go fast...
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Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003 “I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions “Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men “Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House, House “Trust But Verify” - Commissioner Frank Reagan, Blue Bloods |
4 Aug 2010, 15:10 (Ref:2739407) | #6 | |
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Get real.... most race cars are built as a 'disposable item'....
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4 Aug 2010, 22:00 (Ref:2739579) | #7 | ||
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What would the value be of each of the cars that you speak of, excluding the write-off of course?
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Tranquillity - What happens inside Shane's race car. Chaos - What happens outside Jamie's race car. |
5 Aug 2010, 01:53 (Ref:2739628) | #8 | ||
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The value of any historic race car is completely subjective, they're worth whatever you're willing to pay.
AMR-001 was advertised for 70K in 2006 & as much as I wanted to have it in my garage, I wouldn't have offered more than 20K due to it's poor condition & long list of missing original parts. AMR-002 was bought by Stubber in 1999 or 2000, the figure I heard at the time was also 70K but in far better condition & as mentioned above, it too has been "played with" by previous owners. AMR-004 has a 270K+ price tag on it & I believe it's a justified price as it's the only one that is "as raced", no mods, no resto, a pure original. It even has the same set of Dunlops it finished Daytona on! But like the rest of the classic car market, the boom time seems to be over for these one time half a million dollar race cars. |
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5 Aug 2010, 11:55 (Ref:2739775) | #9 | |
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I thought this car was modified for the Daytona (body work and some running gear was changed IIRC) so not "as run" in group c
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5 Aug 2010, 12:56 (Ref:2739813) | #10 | ||
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Supercars isn't the sport. The sport is motor racing. |
5 Aug 2010, 14:42 (Ref:2739855) | #11 | ||
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Quote:
I understand the train of thought of being "as raced" condition but it needs to be a group C kit to run here in Australia so I can't see someone paying a premium for this privilege of buying a as run IMSA GTO car to then spend more cash to rebuilt it back to group C to be allowed to race it. On the flip side you could buy it to keep, but it is not like it did particularly well in the Daytona 24hr so it is not like keeping it in this "as raced" condition because it won its class... It has been on the market for donkeys and was asking 500k at one time so to me it seems not many people interested in it as is... The Group C part is where the value is in a car like this not the Daytona part |
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6 Aug 2010, 00:45 (Ref:2740128) | #12 | ||
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All very good points StOOge regarding eligibility for historic Group C. Changes required are: headlights, front struts, gearbox, passenger seat & rear spoiler. Not much really & all obtainable "bolt on" parts with the original passenger seat still with the car.
Moffat made sure he didn't tamper with the car's heritage for this one off event, so there were no chassis or engine mods at all, even the door linings were kept in place despite the IMSA GTO rules allowing a fully stripped chassis. The other Rx-7 runners couldn't believe their eyes when they saw this one with it's original dash board & consol ! Not to mention standard suspension pick up points, IDA Weber & tiny brakes........& yet Moffat still qualified 3rd in class (2nd quickest Rx-7) ! Despite the car weighing around 150kg heavier than the other Rx-7s, Moffat & crew had climbed to 9th outright & leading GTO by 7am. Only then to have the engine injest some rock fragments which stalled their progress. So it's 24th place finish doesn't tell the full story. Yes it's value is in it's Group C heritage, although it's also unique in that of all the surviving Moffat cars, this is the only one that's "as is" when it left his workshop. The rest have lived other lives or have been restored. |
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6 Aug 2010, 04:14 (Ref:2740188) | #13 | |
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ah ok then I thought it was a little bit more modified but it was a few years ago now and after many beers at Clipsal that I was talking to the owner
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6 Aug 2010, 08:55 (Ref:2740259) | #14 | ||
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the moffat mazda went there as it was after racing here in aust
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6 Aug 2010, 10:18 (Ref:2740301) | #15 | |||
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Quote:
Sorry, dont buy it ! $500k was the asking price for the Daytona car & there were no (?) takers, lets ride on Paul Stubber, he likes racing these cars ... onya Paul ! |
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more torque than a climate change conference |
6 Aug 2010, 12:40 (Ref:2740358) | #16 | ||
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More like it would have been cheaper to run the car with minimal mods and still be competitive?
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Two Oh Two Point Six Seven Oh One!! |
6 Aug 2010, 13:18 (Ref:2740373) | #17 | ||
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more torque than a climate change conference |
6 Aug 2010, 13:45 (Ref:2740386) | #18 | |
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6 Aug 2010, 22:16 (Ref:2740699) | #19 | |||
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Quote:
Why all the scepticism cavvy? If you look through Moffat's career, he took the same approach with the Trans-Am Mustang when he raced it as a Sports Sedan ie: no chassis or engine mods when the rules clearly allowed cutting away firewalls, custom suspension etc. IF the Rx-7 was sent to the USA for a full season of IMSA racing, yeah maybe he would've done the full mod, but this was simply a one off "farewell" race funded by Mazda Australia.........kinda makes sense really & besides, Moffat himself told me all this !!! |
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7 Aug 2010, 01:02 (Ref:2740744) | #20 | |
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did he tell you he ran a 6 speed
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7 Aug 2010, 07:25 (Ref:2740825) | #21 | ||
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He certainly did tell me he ran the 6 speed…….at Daytona!
A few things to consider on that never ending debate of “did he or didn’t he?”……. Mick Webb, the guy who started this rumour (25 years later!!) had already left Moffat’s team in mid 1984 to become team manager for Warren Cullen’s K-Mart Commodore at the Castrol 500 & Bathurst. He knew of Mazda’s plans to go to Daytona & that Moffat had Ron Harrop build up two 6 speed boxes for the 24 hour enduro. Now add 25 years of story telling (a book won’t sell without that extra touch of “Hollywood”) & there you have it! So how can Mick then claim that cars 42 & 43 had 6 speed boxes at the 1984 James Hardie 1000 when he was 8 garages down pit lane wearing a Holden cap? More to the point if he was so sure of this, why wasn’t there any protest lodged before, during or after the race, either directly or through another party..........after all, guess who beat Cullen to 3rd place! ! ! ! Secondly……& you’re gonna love this! AMR-002 (Stubber’s) was originally bought off Moffat by Matt Wacker, “as raced” at the Surfers 300 by Gregg Hansford. It came with a 5 speed gearbox! Only later did Matt purchase & install the “spare” Daytona 6 speed. . |
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7 Aug 2010, 07:46 (Ref:2740827) | #22 | |
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WOW with all that evidence in front of me I HAVE to believe everything you say...
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7 Aug 2010, 08:03 (Ref:2740833) | #23 | ||
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You don't "HAVE" to.......then again I don't have a book to sell!
isn't sarcasm a wonderful thing......one of my favourite pass times too! |
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7 Aug 2010, 08:13 (Ref:2740837) | #24 | ||
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Sorry, I meant the Daytona effort. As in, it's cheaper to not muck about modifying the car further engine/chassis/door changes, especially as it was a one-off (and probably pricey) exercise?
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Two Oh Two Point Six Seven Oh One!! |
7 Aug 2010, 08:15 (Ref:2740838) | #25 | |||
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Quote:
Your very quote of "it would need a minor resto for it to every be allowed to run in Group C," is a fairly damning admission that the car is outside the Group C rules and you still don't seem to get it do you? Beat me fairly and I don't have a problem, beat me by cheating and that's a different story. Is Paul entering Muscle Car thsi year in Group A/C? |
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"The past is knowledge, the present our mistake, the future we always leave too late" Paul Weller (The Style Coulcil) |
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