Reasons why Red Bull are so fast....

Mr V · 26 Mar 2011, 12:59 (Ref:2853488)

...they must be cheating

So, what reasons will the other teams come up with for why red Bull are so fast and surely they must be breaching the rules !!!!

The reason for this thread is the pics i've already seen on Twitter pointing out how low the Red Bull front wing is in comparison to the McLaren ....

johntt · 26 Mar 2011, 13:32 (Ref:2853504)

Red Bull have simply designed a better car.

A better car for qualifying that is

It will be interesting to see how it handles its tyres in the race tomorrow.

Knowlesy · 26 Mar 2011, 13:33 (Ref:2853506)

I think, given it appears to be on rails, it will be fine on tyres.

You would expect so anyways.

kylekosir · 26 Mar 2011, 13:40 (Ref:2853513)

I think the reason why the redbull has a lower nose is because it didn't bounce around like the mclaren did on friday :P

Knowlesy · 26 Mar 2011, 13:45 (Ref:2853517)

Is it not tilting forward under load? As opposed to bending at the sides like last year?

Another loophole exploited perhaps.

Sodemo · 26 Mar 2011, 15:26 (Ref:2853553)

Its a fine line between doing something clever and doing something illegal. As I mentioned in a previous thread, when Ferrari tried this front flexing wing thing back in 2006, the FIA stamped it out within a couple of races, they were told it had to be changed and it was.

Marbot · 26 Mar 2011, 15:28 (Ref:2853555)

AFAIK the Red Bull wing passed scrutineering no problem at all.

Knowlesy · 26 Mar 2011, 15:35 (Ref:2853563)

Well yes.

phoenix · 26 Mar 2011, 16:34 (Ref:2853590)

It looks to me in the two pictures above that the Red Bull might be using the drag reduction system while the McLaren is not.

The two cars would therefore have a very different front/rear downforce balance. This is would change the pitch of the Red Bull relative to the McLaren.

Either that, or they are cheating...

fast95pony · 26 Mar 2011, 16:36 (Ref:2853591)

..because Red Bull gives you (adjustable) wings.

Has Seb figured out how to use KERS and the rear wing to his best advantage ?? He said , I believe , he didn't use KERS,but can that be confirmed ??

Marbot · 26 Mar 2011, 16:46 (Ref:2853600)

Red Bull appear to be using a KERS that only is used at the start of the race. It's a smaller version of a normal KERS.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/9436936.stm

Not the intended use that F1 KERS were intended for. Clever though.

schead · 26 Mar 2011, 17:05 (Ref:2853607)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Red Bull appear to be using a KERS that only is used at the start of the race. It's a smaller version of a normal KERS.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/9436936.stm

Not the intended use that F1 KERS were intended for. Clever though.

Not so much clever as outright cheating. Kenetic Energy recovery involves recovering energy under braking, not just plugging a battery into the wall. Hopefully the other teams will succesfully protest them.

duke_toaster · 26 Mar 2011, 17:17 (Ref:2853612)

The regulations say

Quote:

Originally Posted by Article 1.20

KERS : A system that is designed to recover kinetic energy from the car during braking, store that energy and make it available to propel the car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Article 5.2.1 through to 5.2.4

5.2.1 The use of any device, other than the 2.4 litre, four stroke engine described in 5.1 above and one KERS, to power the car, is not permitted.
5.2.2 With the exception of one fully charged KERS, the total amount of recoverable energy stored on the car must not exceed 300kJ. Any which may be recovered at a rate greater than 2kW must not exceed 20kJ.
5.2.3 The maximum power, in or out, of any KERS must not exceed 60kW. Energy released from the KERS may not exceed 400kJ in any one lap. Measurements will be taken at the connection to the rear wheel drivetrain.
5.2.4 The amount of stored energy in any KERS may not be increased whilst the car is stationary during a race pit stop.
Release of power from any such system must remain under the complete control of the driver at all times the car is on the track.

If this is the case, would the fact that the system isn't designed to recover energy mean that it is not a KERS and therefore prohibited under 5.2.1?

Marbot · 26 Mar 2011, 17:30 (Ref:2853621)

I don't think that there is anything in those regulations that says you must recover energy. There is a total amount that you can recover, but not a minimum amount.

5.2.2 With the exception of one fully charged KERS, the total amount of recoverable energy stored on the car must not exceed 300kJ. Any which may be recovered at a rate greater than 2kW must not exceed 20kJ.

duke_toaster · 26 Mar 2011, 17:40 (Ref:2853626)

Arguably 1.20 does in its definition of a KERS as "A system that is designed to recover kinetic energy from the car during braking, store that energy and make it available to propel the car".

ralf fan · 26 Mar 2011, 17:43 (Ref:2853627)

Maybe they've just built a bloody quick car. I mean they do have the most talented designer perhaps since Colin Chapman working for them. Is the obvious solution not acceptable?

schead · 26 Mar 2011, 17:46 (Ref:2853630)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralf fan

Maybe they've just built a bloody quick car. I mean they do have the most talented designer perhaps since Colin Chapman working for them. Is the obvious solution not acceptable?

Well, the most talented designer since Colin Chapman hasn't exactly picked up too many titles in recent years. Before the 2010 trophies, it was 11 years since he last picked up any title, and 12 years since he grabbed a WCC.

ralf fan · 26 Mar 2011, 17:47 (Ref:2853631)

Quote:

Originally Posted by schead

Well, the most talented designer since Colin Chapman hasn't exactly picked up too many titles in recent years. Before the 2010 trophies, it was 11 years since he last picked up any title, and 12 years since he grabbed a WCC.

Hmm you've proved me wrong.

They must be cheating.

Super Hans · 26 Mar 2011, 17:51 (Ref:2853635)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralf fan

Maybe they've just built a bloody quick car. I mean they do have the most talented designer perhaps since Colin Chapman working for them. Is the obvious solution not acceptable?

Newey is definitely a genius. For over a year now the Red Bull has appeared to hunker down to the point that it's almost mowing the track and nobody (the FIA, rival teams, fans) can fathom out how they're doing it.

stripedcat · 26 Mar 2011, 18:00 (Ref:2853640)

Two reasons that Red Bull are fast, they have Adrian Newey and Sebestian Vettel. Enough said I think.

ralf fan · 26 Mar 2011, 18:07 (Ref:2853648)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Newey is definitely a genius. For over a year now the Red Bull has appeared to hunker down to the point that it's almost mowing the track and nobody (the FIA, rival teams, fans) can fathom out how they're doing it.

Well Ant in commentary had a theory on this last year. He said that the loads the FIA tests are done at are nowhere near the loads that are seen by the front wings at full pace.

I find it amazing that he thinks the FIA could be that stupid. But that was his theory anyway.

Knowlesy · 26 Mar 2011, 18:08 (Ref:2853650)

You don't think the FIA are capable of stupidity?

ralf fan · 26 Mar 2011, 18:12 (Ref:2853654)

I don't doubt that at all. However could they really be that stupid? Y'know its entirely likely.

Super Hans · 26 Mar 2011, 18:14 (Ref:2853656)

Red Bull aren't really that fast though are they? In the wrong hands, the RBR is slower than the McLaren.

Marbot · 26 Mar 2011, 18:15 (Ref:2853657)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Newey is definitely a genius. For over a year now the Red Bull has appeared to hunker down to the point that it's almost mowing the track and nobody (the FIA, rival teams, fans) can fathom out how they're doing it.

Electrically heated front wing!?

That could make it bendy during the race (like a bi-metallic strip) and hard as iron for FIA checks.

Maybe when the FIA allowed electrically adjustable front wings, someone in the Red Bull team said: 'What else can we do to adjust the wing electrically?'

Who knows, maybe Newey even runs some exhaust gas through it!

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