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13 Dec 2011, 22:58 (Ref:2999449) | #1 | |
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Have overtaking initiatives improved F1 ?
Below is an analysis of the overtaking in F1 races in 2011.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns23758.html For me the overtaking initiatives have vastly improved F1, what are your feelings, insights? |
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13 Dec 2011, 23:08 (Ref:2999458) | #2 | |
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It would be interesting to see a comparison with the total number of overtakes in 2010.
Personally, it didn't improve anything for me. I simply don't care about any overtaking "improvements" that are created by contrivedly giving an advantage to the car that's behind just because it is the car behind. That means it was not only no improvement for me, it was a major contributing factor to 2011 being the season in which I watched the least amount of races since I started following the sport in 1994. |
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14 Dec 2011, 02:31 (Ref:2999513) | #3 | ||
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14 Dec 2011, 03:37 (Ref:2999521) | #4 | ||
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I liked the easier overtaking. F1 has, for a very long time, been far too difficult to pass and we'd just get follow the leader bulls--t. DRS and Kers are great - definitely better than Indycar's push to pass.
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14 Dec 2011, 11:13 (Ref:2999626) | #5 | |||
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14 Dec 2011, 11:40 (Ref:2999632) | #6 | ||
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Back in the mid to late 90s though to the early 2000s, it seemed like the only the only overtaking happened in the pits.
I'm generalising of course, but the 2008 season to now have been packed with great races, and in my mind the whole show has improved a great deal. I dont really get why people call it "Trivial". What is so great about a car being 3 seconds a lap faster than the one in front, but stuck behind it for an entire GP because it is impossible to get within passing range due to the dirty air? |
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14 Dec 2011, 12:08 (Ref:2999642) | #7 | ||
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Michael Delaney was wrong. In between is not waiting - in between is the glory, the passion. In between is what elevates racing. |
14 Dec 2011, 12:12 (Ref:2999644) | #8 | ||
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It certainly had more overtakings and more "attrition" between drivers. I can't say it was an improvement, but it's better than the procession we witnessed for years and years. But I don't remember the last season that was plain boring, all of them have been very exciting as a whole.
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14 Dec 2011, 13:13 (Ref:2999659) | #9 | ||
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And before someone says: 'Give them more powerful engines', remember that 1500 bhp turbo engined cars were still much slower than current F1 cars. Lap time comes mainly from aero. Personally, I couldn't give a flying duck if F1 cars just happened to be slower than other open wheel cars, but for some fans it would be almost tantamount to murder. They believe that, above all else, an F1 car should be faster than any other open wheeled car around a typical F1 circuit. In the meantime, F1 cars can be faster than other open wheel cars and still provide some means of overtaking due to devices such as DRS. Last edited by Marbot; 14 Dec 2011 at 13:21. |
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14 Dec 2011, 13:26 (Ref:2999662) | #10 | ||
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14 Dec 2011, 13:35 (Ref:2999666) | #11 | ||
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What's this obsession with overtaking anyway? F1 never was an energy drink injected five overtakes every minute show. Every now and then we had those classic battles, but I challenge anyone to recall any other races where overtaking kept on happening?
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14 Dec 2011, 13:42 (Ref:2999668) | #12 | |
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I don't think that it's so much an obsession as a means to stop the once usual: 'After the last pit stop I quickly caught up with the lead car, but was then unable to get by him' type remarks. Remarks that put the blame squarely on the cars inability to pass another car, rather than the drivers ability to get by.
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14 Dec 2011, 13:43 (Ref:2999669) | #13 | |||
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I think there's two very different opinions as to what a 'good season' is. A good season for me is a mix between championship battles (driver championship), AND good on-track racing. One without the other always leaves a little to be desired. This year was the first time in some time we didn't have the championship battle, but on the whole (i'm talking from 1st through to 24th) we've had much better on-track action. The DRS needs to be levelled out, and I think they'd have learn alot from this year. I think we'll see much better balance next year. But yeh, I don't think we'll see a change in front-runners, namely one Sebastien Vettel. Selby |
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Run-offs, chicanes, hairpins... Think you can do better? Let's see it! Check out the "My Tracks" forum here on Ten-Tenths. |
14 Dec 2011, 14:11 (Ref:2999683) | #14 | |||
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But it is being trivialised. I want to see a driver apply muscle, skill and timing. The outward manifestation of passing isn't enough for me, I want to see a position earned to be satisfied that this sport is the toughest. I wouldn't go as far as to say passing by pressing the button makes it meaningless - there's still skill there - but it does cheapen it. I couldn't give a damn about it being slower than some other series myself. I've been aware CART had been faster for many, many years. Just tell the commentators not to bring it up. |
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14 Dec 2011, 14:44 (Ref:2999691) | #15 | ||
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I wouldn't mind DRS if it's use was unlimited, with possible automation to aid slipstreaming.
But then, why not just have flexible wings? |
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14 Dec 2011, 15:07 (Ref:2999699) | #16 | |
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How flexible could a flexible wing be?
Should having the ability to make the most flexible wing possible be 'the' performance differentiator in F1 cars? The best way to aid overtaking is to make having a 'draggy' car a liability, which is exactly what the 2014 regulations are all about. The current regulations allow the cars to carry enough fuel to compensate for the drag that they create and also enough fuel to create down force by means of chucking fuel into the engine when the drivers foot is off the throttle. The 2014 regulations set a limit for the amount of fuel to be carried, so you have no excess fuel to compensate for drag, etc. |
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15 Dec 2011, 01:01 (Ref:3000000) | #17 | ||
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15 Dec 2011, 14:05 (Ref:3000221) | #18 | |||
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Selby |
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Run-offs, chicanes, hairpins... Think you can do better? Let's see it! Check out the "My Tracks" forum here on Ten-Tenths. |
16 Dec 2011, 05:02 (Ref:3000621) | #19 | |
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Those indycars might be faster, but F1 cars are of course way quicker. I believe that F1 cars should be the quickest cars around a racetrack.
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16 Dec 2011, 13:16 (Ref:3000796) | #20 | |
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17 Dec 2011, 00:56 (Ref:3001062) | #21 | ||
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Back in the 90's, CART was just as quick as F1. The cars were heavier, but they had ground effects and turbo's putting out the sorts of horsepower on the scary side of 1000!
Pre-Tyre War, a car from CART could have outpaced an F1 car around tracks like Hockenheim or Monza, no problem! |
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17 Dec 2011, 00:59 (Ref:3001063) | #22 | |
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Those tracks are not really F1 tracks tho. They are straights with chicanes.
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17 Dec 2011, 03:15 (Ref:3001083) | #23 | |||
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17 Dec 2011, 05:06 (Ref:3001092) | #24 | ||
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17 Dec 2011, 05:15 (Ref:3001094) | #25 | |
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But this should not be a problem for F1 and it's teams. It's a legitimate concern when you're talking about an IndyCar or a SuperLeague Formula or a Formula Nippon. But F1 is a trillion dollar business, with global visibility.
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