Multi 21 Red Bull-Honda - Page 15

Richard C · 8 Nov 2018, 19:15 (Ref:3861855)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Steering back towards topic

Thank you! I don't think the direction the posts over the past page or so prior were heading were particularly productive. Lets keep on topic people. No need to score points off each other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

does anyone know if Honda are bringing any more updates to the PU this season? They reverted to the older spec - so is that being kept for the rest of year or are they going to bring another iteration to the final races?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Honda are bringing their upgraded engine to Brazil.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/139890

I think they have been battling an issue that has plagued Honda since last year which has been oscillation or resonance between the engine and gearbox. I think they had mostly solved that, but it seems it may have reappeared to a degree with the recent updates. That may not be surprising given I think they made a number of changes within the ICE with the recent updates. So it probably change the dynamics of the interactions within the driveline.

In the end, most likely this is a software issue, but they stopped using the newest engine until they could resolve this. No doubt they felt it was ready, but maybe there was again something that they didn't replicate on the test stand that showed up on track So I suppose they have addressed this which is why the previously used new engines in their pool we be used now. I think I read they had tried to do a post parc ferme software update (or maybe parameter adjustment) previously, but couldn't as the change would have also probably produced a performance gain.

I also think I have read that Honda is now (maybe has been for awhile) doing total drivetrain dyno testing with the STR gearbox. So this way they can tune everything as a complete unit. I don't think this was done with the McLaren gearbox, or if it was, it wasn't done at first. And if I remember correctly (pulled from reading elsewhere) this wasn't done due to the entire package being mated together VERY late for 2017 season.

Plus, I think STR is continuing to work on chassis/aero updates as well. So while the focus is on 2019, they are still trying to score STR points for 2018.

Richard

Richard C · 8 Nov 2018, 19:20 (Ref:3861857)

I don't think I have seen this posted here. But it sounds like things are going well with Honda + Exxon Mobile. It sounds like the switch for 2018 was a quick one while they are now in a position to really optimize the partnership for 2019.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...019-fuel-boost

Richard

EffectiveSprinkles · 9 Nov 2018, 14:19 (Ref:3861980)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Maybe it was just a phrase uttered due to (very understandable) frustration, or maybe it wasn't.

It was. Why anyone would think otherwise is a mystery to both me and Ricciardo himself.

Quote:

Daniel Ricciardo says comments he made after the Mexican Grand Prix suggesting he would miss the final races of 2018 were not meant to be taken seriously.

https://www.racefans.net/2018/11/09/...wasnt-serious/

**bjohnsonsmith** · 9 Nov 2018, 14:41 (Ref:3861982)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

It was. Why anyone would think otherwise is a mystery to both me and Ricciardo himself.

https://www.racefans.net/2018/11/09/...wasnt-serious/

Because he made a comment, after what happened in Mexico, suggesting he would miss the final races of 2018. It even says so in the first paragraph of this RACEFANS article. Since then, he has cleared up any misunderstanding about his comments. I look forward to seeing him race in Brazil and Abu Dhabi

VIVA GT · 9 Nov 2018, 14:47 (Ref:3861983)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Because he made a comment, after what happened in Mexico, suggesting he would miss the final races of 2018. It even says so in the first paragraph of this RACEFANS article. Since then, he has cleared up any misunderstanding about his comments. I look forward to seeing him race in Brazil and Abu Dhabi

Unfortunately it would appear that he's starting with a 5 place grid penalty due to a turbo change...Story HERE

**bjohnsonsmith** · 9 Nov 2018, 15:00 (Ref:3861984)

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Unfortunately it would appear that he's starting with a 5 place grid penalty due to a turbo change...Story HERE

Maybe he shouldn't have bothered, after all.

S griffin · 9 Nov 2018, 15:24 (Ref:3861991)

He’s having all the bad luck after Max seemed to have it all in 2017

EffectiveSprinkles · 9 Nov 2018, 15:59 (Ref:3861998)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Because he made a comment, after what happened in Mexico, suggesting he would miss the final races of 2018.

Yes and it was clearly not meant to be taken seriously. Which he is confirming right now. You suggested it should perhaps be taken seriously, which is very odd to do. You were wrong to suggest that.

chillibowl · 9 Nov 2018, 16:14 (Ref:3862006)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Yes and it was clearly not meant to be taken seriously. Which he is confirming right now. You suggested it should perhaps be taken seriously, which is very odd to do. You were wrong to suggest that.

thats not fair...people make emotional decisions all the time particularly in sports. when DR said it and given how much overt frustration he has shown over the past few months surely such an early withdrawal was within the realm of possibilities and also on the heels of RB saying they wont release him early for Renault testing?

**bjohnsonsmith** · 9 Nov 2018, 16:20 (Ref:3862007)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Yes and it was clearly not meant to be taken seriously. Which he is confirming right now. You suggested it should perhaps be taken seriously, which is very odd to do. You were wrong to suggest that.

It's not a question of right or wrong. He made the comment in the context of what happened in the Mexican GP and clearly his suggestion was taken seriously. Otherwise why the need for him to say publicly, that the comments were not meant to be taken seriously?

S griffin · 9 Nov 2018, 16:21 (Ref:3862008)

Yeah, I wonder if that is adding to his frustration. The fact that RBR won’t let him go early to test the new Renault. Maybe though RBR are keeping him as a bargaining chip

**bjohnsonsmith** · 9 Nov 2018, 16:32 (Ref:3862009)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

Yeah, I wonder if that is adding to his frustration. The fact that RBR won’t let him go early to test the new Renault. Maybe though RBR are keeping him as a bargaining chip

A bargaining chip, for what?

Richard C · 9 Nov 2018, 16:33 (Ref:3862010)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Yes and it was clearly not meant to be taken seriously. Which he is confirming right now. You suggested it should perhaps be taken seriously, which is very odd to do. You were wrong to suggest that.

I will say... I have seen in private industry situations in which someone was frustrated and said something to the effect "If X doesn't change, I quit". It may have been a comment grounded in frustration, but it was taken as an opportunity to move someone out of the business so the answer was "We accept your resignation" and their fate was sealed. My point is... be careful of saying stuff like this because someone in a position of power may want to take your comment seriously.

Richard

EffectiveSprinkles · 9 Nov 2018, 16:43 (Ref:3862012)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It's not a question of right or wrong. He made the comment in the context of what happened in the Mexican GP and clearly his suggestion was taken seriously. Otherwise why the need for him to say publicly, that the comments were not meant to be taken seriously?

Because people mistakenly took it seriously, like you did. So yes, you are indeed wrong. Why is that so hard to admit?

EffectiveSprinkles · 9 Nov 2018, 16:44 (Ref:3862013)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I will say... I have seen in private industry situations in which someone was frustrated and said something to the effect "If X doesn't change, I quit". It may have been a comment grounded in frustration, but it was taken as an opportunity to move someone out of the business so the answer was "We accept your resignation" and their fate was sealed. My point is... be careful of saying stuff like this because someone in a position of power may want to take your comment seriously.

Richard

Just think about it rationally. What would either Red Bull or Ricciardo possibly have to gain by not showing up for the last two races? In what insane universe would either of them ever do that?

It's insane we're even still talking such an incredibly silly thing.

VIVA GT · 9 Nov 2018, 16:47 (Ref:3862014)

I'm sure Danny Ric's comment was (understandably) made in frustration. Along the lines of '"I don't know why I bother?" Something that I am sure most of us have at least thought, and also often said out loud at times.
He's put all of this personal effort in, only for the machine (I'm not apportioning any blame here between team & engine supplier) to let him down again.

chillibowl · 9 Nov 2018, 16:59 (Ref:3862016)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

A bargaining chip, for what?

there might be some final payments to Renault, a discount on that payment, or maybe an attempt to squeeze some money out of Renault.

cynically i would say its a final eff you to DR and Renault but as this is a competitive sport and Renault overtaking RB-Honda next year is a real possibility why give your opposition a march on development.

but who knows....given the egos involved i think the underlying problem here is that we are all trying to apply rational thinking to the self interest that is F1!

Richard C · 9 Nov 2018, 17:01 (Ref:3862017)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Just think about it rationally.

I always like to tell people... Assuming people around you act rationally is a bad assumption.

But to your point, I expect everyone involved would make a rational decision. The only unknown is if there is other factors that we are not privy that might drive the decision in a direction we might find confusing.

Richard

**bjohnsonsmith** · 9 Nov 2018, 17:21 (Ref:3862020)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Because people mistakenly took it seriously, like you did. So yes, you are indeed wrong. Why is that so hard to admit?

I took it in it's context, as did many other people, there's nothing wrong with that. That is why Danny Ric has clarified the situation. Why are you getting so worked up about it? Move on, there's another GP this weekend.

**Adam43** · 9 Nov 2018, 18:58 (Ref:3862034)

Quote:

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Because people mistakenly took it seriously, like you did. So yes, you are indeed wrong. Why is that so hard to admit?

OK, OK, 10 internet points to you. You’re in the lead!

Quote:

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

It's insane we're even still talking such an incredibly silly thing.

Yep. So...

broadrun96 · 9 Nov 2018, 20:43 (Ref:3862054)

At least it isn't the pedantic argument on another site about the wording of the headline on the article about DR's turbo being swapped out since it was hit with extinguisher foam last week and it solidified in the turbo. 2 pages to end up with the car was smoking and the response was correct, sometimes sh1t happens.

Although I will say there could maybe be a way to work that in to the rules about this type of replacement. Since we already have a multitude of rules about each tiny eventuality already.

wnut · 9 Nov 2018, 23:09 (Ref:3862068)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

Yeah, I wonder if that is adding to his frustration. The fact that RBR won’t let him go early to test the new Renault. Maybe though RBR are keeping him as a bargaining chip

It always amazes me that motorsport contracts don't end at the final race of the season. Why would you sign a contract that commits you until 1 January when the season ends on ? November?
Make no sense, and here it plays out for Danni Ricc!

S griffin · 10 Nov 2018, 08:45 (Ref:3862112)

I know, the new season always starts the day the old one ends. So there's no reason why they should feel the need to keep him

Akrapovic · 10 Nov 2018, 11:51 (Ref:3862130)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

It always amazes me that motorsport contracts don't end at the final race of the season. Why would you sign a contract that commits you until 1 January when the season ends on ? November?
Make no sense, and here it plays out for Danni Ricc!

That's an F1 thing really. A lot of sportscar contracts do end at midnight of the final race. Some people even do tests for other teams the Monday after.

Mike Harte · 10 Nov 2018, 12:35 (Ref:3862140)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

That's an F1 thing really. A lot of sportscar contracts do end at midnight of the final race. Some people even do tests for other teams the Monday after.

Is it possibly that the teams have contracts with the FIA and FOM that run from January to December (as do the drivers as far as their super-licences with the FIA) and I would imagine that sponsorship contracts run on the same basis.

As a consequence, I would imagine that the drivers' contracts would run on the same basis as they are often required to carry out promotional and testing work after the season has ended.

The above may be completely wrong, but it makes some sense.

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