[WTCC] Race 3 & 4 - Puebla (MEX), 5/6 April 2008

[Hazard]

Looks like a SEAT Top 6 on the way!

[Bramzel]

Looks like a very boring race Can't wait for Valencia, some real racing again, incl. a Honda and some Ladas! :P

[Hazard]

They're hardly hanging on in formation!

[Hazard]

So I contest, that was a great race. Some great battles for the non-SEAT positions as well

Those SEAT's racing each other was brilliant as well. Congratulations to Monteiro and Gené for their wins...and Rydell's double seconds, and lead of the championship!

[E46]

Originally Posted by Hazard

Those SEAT's racing each other was brilliant as well

What a difference with Alfa Romeo days.

[Les]

it wasn't a race though -was it... it was a collection of slips and slides. Boring

[hadlou]

FIA must change must change the regulations of the Leon TDI, otherwise Chevy and BMW might disappointed and leave the championship

[Matt]

Also, to improve the Puebla track, take out at least that final roval section. That way, when they come back out onto the oval's back straight, have them go full tilt into the final oval corner.

[Hazard]

Originally Posted by hadlou

FIA must change must change the regulations of the Leon TDI, otherwise Chevy and BMW might disappointed and leave the championship

Always amazed by the 'someone's become competitive, lets make that not the case'.

BMW have a diesel in development, SEAT sprang that surprise on the championship last year's and it's done them well, now when BMW can actually catch up it should be close again.

And as Martin Haven said on the commentary - these two events were always going to favour the FWD diesels anyway.

[Bramzel]

This whole issue can easily be solved: Pick another track than Puebla for next year.

[Lam Pak]

bmw is being humiliated by seat. i cant believe

[Dani Filth]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

This whole issue can easily be solved: Pick another track than Puebla for next year.

in that case we should eliminate a RWD(BMW) track too

[Bramzel]

And which track would that be? Is there one track where BMW utterly dominates like the FWD's did this race?

[werner]

The Beemers have a large advantage at the Melco-hairpin in Macaou. And that is one of the most important corners on the track. Having a good exit there means you can't be overtaken at the end of the fast section at Lisboa. Ask Giovanardi, who was faster than a Beemer all race in 2005 (I think) but had so much less traction at the hairpin that he was busy making up for that loss the whole other part of the lap.
This doesn't mean BTW that I want to axe Macaou, I like that race very much.

[JMeissner]

But it wasn't exactly BMW 1-2-3-4-5-6 at Macau...

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by JMeissner

But it wasn't exactly BMW 1-2-3-4-5-6 at Macau...

My point exactly. And that Honda was faster, meaning the opposition was far from chanceless.

[davyboy]

The SEATs are too fast... which isn't a problem when everyone's competing under the same rules... but WTCC is an equivalence formula which is trying to balance the performance characteristics of petrol and diesel power. The formula is so obviously wrong at the moment and it needs to be corrected immediately.

The FIA need to look at the different manufacturers involved in the WTCC at the moment and consider the catastrophic repercussions of a BMW withdrawal on the series.

[gwyllion]

People you can not change physics. Turbocharged engines work better on high altitude. Should FIA make the turbo pressure and restrictor size variable, depending on altitude of the track? Should temperature variations also be included in the equations?

What is it rains? Then FWD is better configuration. Should RWD get weight reduction when it rains?

Just wait for final judgement about performance ballast when WTCC goes to sea level tracks.

[JMeissner]

Indeed gwyllion, touring car racing is very much about the differences between the cars. Then why allow turbodiesel to make it even worse?

[gttouring]

well SEAT is part of the VAG-VW mega group
BMW having it handed to them by VAG is hardly a tough pill to swallow technically anyway
why bother with fixing it up much the weight penalty and the rest of the season can go BMW's way, and they can up the ante or perhaps petitiona smaller petrol turbo engine they do have a production turbo car now...
what are the diesel engine specs anyway?

[Sodemo]

I think the most sensible thing would be to simply add 25kg ontop of the base weight for the TDi's.

Did BMW ever get their extra weight penalty lifted that was imposed after Zandvoort 2007?

[Bramzel]

I think the most sensible thing would be to cool down and see how all the cars perform on a normal circuit in normal circumstances, being Valencia and Pau in this matter.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

This whole issue can easily be solved: Pick another track than Puebla for next year.

Indeed, and throw in a "both races have rolling starts" and we would have a much more fair FWD vs RWD championship.

The TDIs might have the added weight over the tracktion wheels in a standing start to not be too far off to the first corner, but all those pertol FWDs are just left in the dust, which is just as unfair as a track like Puebla is vs the RWD cars.

[Matthopps]

WTCC is probably stuck going to Puebla for the next few years but for what's it's worth, would probably be better suited to that Monterrey track that Champ Car used to go to until recently. More overtaking opportunities there methinks.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

I think the most sensible thing would be to cool down and see how all the cars perform on a normal circuit in normal circumstances, being Valencia and Pau in this matter.

Well Valencia has always been a front wheel drive dominated track, so thats pretty much a certain SEAT domination there.