Are freelancers a dying breed

[grantp]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Yes, I've done a lot of work on this with one of my other jobs...not relevant for me to go into it here, but suffice to say the RTA does apply in race circuits or whatever. If you're desperately interested I'll PM you the details or you can start a new thread elsewhere and point me to it.

The relevance of the point is that if the law defines a race circuit, even if you have to pay admission, as a public place, then my contention would be that what happens there is in the public domain and not subject to the circuit's copyright.

Given the propensity for all and sundry who have any options for imposing 'legal sanctions' doing just that in order to improve their revenue streams ...

.... where is there a defined boundary between laws that apply in obviously public places - the roads and the RTA for example - and places where clearly there is lot of alternative activity that does not seem to be subject to the same rules - a circuit paddock for example.

If the public laws in toto applied to a race circuit paddock and general environs you would, surely, see plod and their pals parked up all over the place cameras to the fore and fixed penalty notice pad wilting under the strain or a rapidly deployed biro.

Not seen that yet, although it may only be a matter of time.

[backfire]

With all this discussion of law, don't forget that any restriction on photography by a circuit owner or promoter would be subject to civil law only. As an accredited snapper may have to sign away certain 'rights', the spectator will not, so, despite conditions printed on the back of tickets, in programmes etc. the pro will be more of a target. I don't see circuits serving civil writs against spectators, however pros may lose their passes. This happened many years ago when a well known pro was refused passes at Donington because it was considered his main business was selling to drivers (he was also supplying Motoring News).

[retrognome]

Every circuit attaches their own importance to media. For example, during the Nurbugring Old Timer weekend hot food is available and a shuttle service operates as it does at Le Mans and Spa. Of course some circuits, such as Cadwell Park make up for it's lack of basic journalistic needs such as no wifi either free or otherwise by providing a great place for photography. Silverstone is a problem in all respects although they are trying, why is it always so wet and why, after constructing new entry/exit roads is the traffic so bad. Also with Silverstone the split of competitors between new and old paddocks borders on farcical. What is your favourite and worst liked circuit. Maybe we should have a
'Photographers European Circuit of the Year Award'? My vote goes to Angouleme.

[MikeHoyer]

I like the Nurburgring, was there for the 24 Hours weekend and British F3 a week later this year. Plenty of food and drink available, even given the very thin numbers at British F3 (DTM was at Norisring I think that weekend). I went home a lot heavier...

[grantp]

Originally Posted by retrognome

Maybe we should have a
'Photographers European Circuit of the Year Award'? My vote goes to Angouleme.

Now is this about media facilities, photographic opportunities or the food and drink options made available in the media centre? Or all of that and more?

Maybe we should have categories as well as an overall favourite?

I always seem to be too involved with something to make full use of the media offices.

I have been told before that Angouleme is special but have not yet had the opportunity to see for myself.

Should this be in a new thread?

[retrognome]

I can see us all getting banned! Either that or Brands Hatch will suddenly put on a three course meal for media

[Richard B]

Keeping to the new "off topic thread" Bucharest is my favourite, the media centre in Ceausescu's palace with marble floors, chandeliers hanging from the ceiling and a choice of hot or cold meals.

[Stephen H]

For those of you that go trackside, just take a look over your shoulder and look where the public stand and what they have to look through to see the circuit.

I got my first SLR in 1982, and I take photos for pleasure. And the opportunities for taking a picture from the public areas are ever decreasing.

With the increase in run off areas and ever more and higher debris fencing, that often get banners draped on them, there are far fewer places to take photos these days, than 30 years ago.

In 1992 I got into silverstone soon after the gates open to grab a spot to watch the GP peering through a gap in the debris fencing. Having waited all day, just minutes before the start, a trackside photographer and a helper just turned up and stood right in my view. No chance to take a photograph.

The public have less opportunity to take good pictures these days, than those trackside, who can still get all the classic views that the public have be deprived of over the years, can move to varies spots, and grab a vantage point just minutes before a race.

In 1982, I could get a similar view to a trackside photographer, but I can think of very few places where that is the case today.

Hasn`t the digital age increased the opportunities to sell pictures?

When i first started doing trackdays, there used to be a photographer, who took pictures in the morning, processed the film, and printed up the hundreds of images, the majority of which would not be sold, with one chance to sell to drivers before they left.

Now with the digital age, there is the opportunity to display and sell those picture for weeks after an event?

[bella]

Originally Posted by Richard B

Keeping to the new "off topic thread" Bucharest is my favourite, the media centre in Ceausescu's palace with marble floors, chandeliers hanging from the ceiling and a choice of hot or cold meals.

that's mine too, such a cool media room. did you stand on the steps and salute your imaginary crowd of followers as far as the eye could see too?

[retrognome]

Stephen.
You make a very good point. on a rally stage during WRC Rally Wales GB I was shouted at by spectators with cameras to 'ucking' get out the way. Generally however, i agree, opportunities are decreasing for everyone.

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by bella

that's mine too, such a cool media room. did you stand on the steps and salute your imaginary crowd of followers as far as the eye could see too?

You mean the hundreds of die hard Romanian F3 fans, or maybe a few less then that..then head to the secret tunnel to make my escape via underground railway to the airport..

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by Stephen H

For those of you that go trackside, just take a look over your shoulder and look where the public stand and what they have to look through to see the circuit.

I agree with you entirley Stephen. Having been on the public side of the fence I know how frustrating the arrival of a photographer right in front of you can be. It takes 2 seconds to look over your shoulder and move slightly if it helps somebody. At one race last year a couple of greatful spectators asked for my card and later purchased images.

[retrognome]

Some circuits, such as Donington and Spa provide, non media photo taking areas, how many other circuits do this?

[Tim the Grey]

Silverstone's new Loop does seem to be doing this.
However, this was one reaction at Britcar 24...
After 2 days of no comment, Hitler in Orange suddenly pipes up that you 'cannot use the photographer's windows as it's unsafe.'. He even had the official window shut!
I have used all those windows on various occasions since foot traffic was allowed in there, and I've had no other issues, whatsoever...
So, I shut up, and move on. If you showed any sign of stopping to take pictures, he had his Goon Squad move in? I do hope this isn't now the official attitude.

[PDS]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Silverstone's new Loop does seem to be doing this.
However, this was one reaction at Britcar 24...
After 2 days of no comment, Hitler in Orange suddenly pipes up that you 'cannot use the photographer's windows as it's unsafe.'. He even had the official window shut!
I have used all those windows on various occasions since foot traffic was allowed in there, and I've had no other issues, whatsoever...
So, I shut up, and move on. If you showed any sign of stopping to take pictures, he had his Goon Squad move in? I do hope this isn't now the official attitude.

HA HA! when I did the STW back in the late 90's the German photographers had wire cutters in the camera bags and on many occassions at circuits that included Hockenhiem and at the Nurburgring they would cut a hole in the wire and start taking pictures... No one stopped them!

[retrognome]

ha, they must have been to Nordschleife as well, and I thought it was the mice.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by retrognome

ha, they must have been to Nordschleife as well, and I thought it was the mice.

I suspect the gaps at Spa that seem to be 'official' started out as wirecutter jobs. Those that were deemed to be at relatively safer locations (and were perhaps repeatedly created if repaired) may have been adopted to encourage people not to create so many new ones.

That said there seem to be quite a few that look far from official.

[Tim the Grey]

Plenty of amateur holes up on top of Raidillon, looking down into Eau Rouge...
Some actually have a better angle of the track than being officially trackside.

[retrognome]

Great for panning shots and certainly better than being on the other side

[TerribleWone]

Originally Posted by PDS

And some, when they get trackside... haven't got a clue!

Well everyone has their first day on the job. That said there is simply no excuse for what I see on a weekly basis at the track:

1. Guy leans on crash fence with his arms and head completely outside of the photo hole. He was shooting a 50mm prime.... I was shooting the same hole with a 300mm prime and 1.4 TC. This was also on the outside of the exit of a turn, exactly where a car would crash. - Mid Ohio 2011 Indy Car warm up

2. Guy walks to the outside of armco at the apex of west bend. - Lime Rock 2011

3. To show where a car has crashed in warm up a shooter put his arm completely outside of the crash fence to point where it happened... and this was on a HOT track. - Baltimore Indy Quali 2011

4. To get a lower angle a photographer lays in the grass in a opening of the concret barrier infront of oncoming cars. - Road America ALMS 2011

5. At PLM a shooter set a tripod up in a teams pit area and then instructed them not to move infront of the camera for the next 30 mins. Add to that tripods are NOT allowed period. - Raceday PLM 2011

6. Guy wears shorts and a polo inside of a HOT alms pit on raceday... fire suits are mandatory. - Lime Rock Raceday 2011

[bella]

paul ricard have a standard issue idiots guide to going trackside which is pretty interesting, with photos to avoid any doubt and a full presentation every morning for those who want to 'earn' their right to go trackside. all the other circuits presume a vast degree of knowledge.

[retrognome]

My biggest fault is I can't resist reviewing shots while the action is still going on.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by retrognome

My biggest fault is I can't resist reviewing shots while the action is still going on.

An obvious drawback to using digital. Good job they didn't invent a high speed portable darkroom back in the days of film. Or can you imagine what one might have missed shooting polaroid?

[retrognome]

You really have to respect the likes of DSJ in the sixties who had no idea what was in the box until arriving home

[cptkablamo]

It is one of those things. My worst habit is looking at the back of the camera while things are still happening!

To an extent the age of the freelancer is not over. The best will still rise to the top. Like the mechanics and drivers, there are a lot out there doing it for fun. Putting in their own money into it for the love of the game. Those with the commitment & talent & connections will still make it.

The internet has made it much harder to get paid but much easier to get creds - is it such a bad thing - putting my day job hat on (e-comms) no, put my weekend hat on - yes. I have not found a way to commercialise my photography effectively yet. People have to learn and start somewhere. Perhaps a better ladder system should be in place for photogs too - to allow the ones with the talent and the commitment to make it their life's work thrive.

You do see some stupid things STUPID things - particularly from the new guys. Which brings the case of effective marking of photogs so they can get chewed out later - it is how you learn the rules.

In the coming times, I think those who handle the creds WILL become more picky, which is not a bad thing - and equally, the amount of people offering only photography to make a living of motorsport will decrease.

Things move on. Adapt and innovate or die.