Brands Track Alterations

[silver bullet]

I read in Motorsport News that Mr P and MSV have done some track alterations and now the old rallycross circuit could be used, (turn sharp right after Hoppys Drop, back down the Cooper Straight, cutting up by the pit exit, back onto the main circuit berfore Paddock) or, the one they used for a few years just after the Foulston Centre was built (turn left after Hoppys and go round Clearways)

So MSV clearly wants to see rallycross at Brands, the question is who will run it BRDA, RSS or MSV. Do either of our promoters want to run a high profile loss making event, or will Mr Palmer use his own guys and bring back the GP?

[Stephen Green]

Interesting thoughts. First of all I didn't think it was posible to use the old circuit because of the heavy iron gates that are across the pit lane for security?

I think that all large car meetings, where possible, are now going to be run by MSVR.

[bigted]

i think it would be very good if Brands did bring back the GP and run it themselves, the thing that prevents anyone running the gp at brands is the high circuit hire.

I think MSVR would probably look at getting people in to help organise the event any way as it is a bit different to running anything else. and im sure we all would like to help run it.

[BertMk2]

If MSV chose to run the event themselves I'm sure it would be a goer - currently circuit hire costs makes Brands less than viable, remove that from the equation and a GP style event would be a surefire hit (with both competitors and spectators). If they chose to run the event after the European and British championships have finished they could potentially attract a lot of top class drivers - Brands is a big name circuit and one that people seem to want to race on.

[Bodysnatcher]

Originally Posted by silver bullet

or, the one they used for a few years just after the Foulston Centre was built (turn left after Hoppys and go round Clearways)

The return bit from Foulstouns folly to bottom straight has just been grassed over, so the version that went round the clearways loop seems out. Thank goodness. The shorter version with the sharp right at the bottom of hoppy's was the better layout.
Would love too see big time rallycross back, whatever circuit configuration is used

[sihorton]

MSV would still need to involve the BRDA &/or RSS anyway to get the drivers involved for an event there.

Would love to see rallycross back there and indeed i'd love to compete there again (just need to take car not to go on JP's precious grass)

si

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

If MSV chose to run the event themselves I'm sure it would be a goer - currently circuit hire costs makes Brands less than viable, remove that from the equation and a GP style event would be a surefire hit...

I could never understand the quoted circuit hire charges for Brands rallycross. Rallycross events always got decent crowds - much more than many of the Brands 'club' meetings that they hold in front of one man and a dog (and sometimes not even the dog).

Rallycross brought in cash for the circuit. Just 2,000 people at £12 per head meant £24,000 more for the owners - a big earner compared to a lot of the mediocrity run there. So why the huge hire charge? What the hell else is going on in November?? Is this more to do with 'politics' than economics?? Hopefully MSV will bring a fresh more businesslike approach...

[BertMk2]

Yep, the rallycross events at Brands always bring in a decent crowd (and therefore the circuit makes plenty of cash), however, if they drop the circuit hire cost and then there's a freak blizzard (or whatever) on the day and only 5 people turn up then it's the circuit that loses. Basically whether it's rallycross or circuit racing - I assume the circuit will charge whatever it takes to cover their basic costs based on the assumption that no paying spectators will turn up - anything they get after that is all cash in the bank. I suppose you could have a 'rebate' type arrangement (if more than 2000 people turn up then a set amount is returned to the organising club - this could then be used to offset entry fees for another event or returned to the competitors). Can't see it happening though (people aren't very good at giving money back ).

If MSV team up with the BRDA or RSS then an event could easily happen - and if MSV are backing it then you can bet there'll be a good crowd (MSV will push it on their website, with posters at the circuits and in the motorsport press) and there would also be a good entry - very possibly with a healthy European contingent too. It's got to be worth a go surely?

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Basically whether it's rallycross or circuit racing - I assume the circuit will charge whatever it takes to cover their basic costs based on the assumption that no paying spectators will turn up - anything they get after that is all cash in the bank.

Yes, its been said before but this is the BIG problem with British motorsport. The circuit owner doesn't have all that much incentive to get spectators in because he knows the competitors will stump up the cash anyway... and the clubs have no incentive to get spectators in at all as all the entrance money goes into the pockets of circuit owners. Therefore no one bothers to REALLY promote the event and the sport remains a 'minority' interest...

As you say the answer is probably some kind of 'rebate' arrangement but it wouldn't be easy to negotiate. However maybe MotorsportVISION will live up to its name!

[Barrie]

Whatever track format they use the start, finish line has got to be in the same place.

[silver bullet]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

The return bit from Foulstouns folly to bottom straight has just been grassed over, so the version that went round the clearways loop seems out.

I would presume that if they used that version then it would just use the Indy Circuit right round Clearways and Clarke Curve.

Originally Posted by Barrie

Whatever track format they use the start, finish line has got to be in the same place.

Why? It is'nt at Lydden.

[Upside Down Bug]

The start doesn't need to be in the same place, but it needs to be in the same line of sight for the timekeepers. The problem when we went back to brands was that the timekeepers in the control tower did not have a clear sight of the old finish line on the knife edge.

From a purely personal perspective I would love to see Rallycross back at Brands, it was the spiritual home of the Grand Prix.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Upside Down Bug

From a purely personal perspective I would love to see Rallycross back at Brands, it was the spiritual home of the Grand Prix.

It's this kind of response that makes me think that an MSV run end of season Grand Prix would be huge. Brands has history and is a name that is known worldwide, it also seems to have that extra something - just an aura about it really. Drivers want to race there, officials want to be there, Marshals want to be there and the public want to go there.

As far as the track layout goes - the last configuration used too much of the start finish straight - the cars were getting too strung out and that must have been the longest straight in rallycross by some distance. Then again I'm not sure that the version that ran back up through the bottom of the pitlane is a viable option either (could be done with some extra mods though I expect). If they really want Rallycross back I'm sure it will happen.

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

As far as the track layout goes - the last configuration used too much of the start finish straight - the cars were getting too strung out and that must have been the longest straight in rallycross by some distance.

I would have thought that the easiest way around this problem would be to put in a temporary tyre wall chicane just before the start grid? I don't know what the MSA regs have to say about this sort of arrangement though...?

[Stephen Green]

It would be highly unlikely to be passed for safety reasons

[leonidas]

Stephen - it would be interesting to know what the regs are on this. Temporary tyre-wall chicanes have been used in F1 and in the Rallycross ERC... The tyre walls chicanes at places like Blyton occasionally come in for criticism but are passed. I would have thought that there was much more space available and run off areas etc at Brands... but maybe there are other considerations such as extent of likely deceleration required etc?

[chunder]

Anoter reson for having the start/finish in teh same place is probably transponders, the grid layout will have them in the track i presume, and they would have to dig up the track along the eEdge to put them in ther, possibly making the track have a hump in it!
I have spoken to people about the rallycross track three so many times and if you had the event there in Novmeber like it used to be and got the big drivers there, plus so,me big names like say Mark Higgins or matt Neal someone like that it would get a huge crowd, it always did, even with the newer cars!
Maybe an oldies race in Stock Hatch cars or Mini's praps, anything! It isnt hard.

[Stephen Green]

Originally Posted by leonidas

Stephen - it would be interesting to know what the regs are on this. Temporary tyre-wall chicanes have been used in F1 and in the Rallycross ERC... The tyre walls chicanes at places like Blyton occasionally come in for criticism but are passed. I would have thought that there was much more space available and run off areas etc at Brands... but maybe there are other considerations such as extent of likely deceleration required etc?

With Brands Hatch being a relatively narrow track and the high speed of rallycross cars, the chances of the MSA approving a part of the live track next to the start line would be extremely thin in my opinion. Not only that but it would be terribly unsafe for any marshal working on the start line.

[Hog]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

With Brands Hatch being a relatively narrow track and the high speed of rallycross cars, the chances of the MSA approving a part of the live track next to the start line would be extremely thin in my opinion. Not only that but it would be terribly unsafe for any marshal working on the start line.

Ahh we're used to the dangers of the Brands startline mate. Ask Gnomex about the wild rabbits we've had to deal with..........

Seriously though - a big event at Brands would be fantastic, and if it could be run close to the original circuit designed by Trevor Hopkins then it would only add to the event.

[spanner]

I thought i saw a rallycross event timetabled at Brands for the last two years but it always got pulled for unknown reasons. I take it thats what this is all about trying to slow down the track!