[Official] Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2015: Weekend Thread

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

What a sphericalobjects-up over Hamilton's last stop. It seems to me they had 4 options:

1. Shadow Rosberg and rely on Hamilton being faster in an equal car
2. Go longer, then choose options for the last stint and hope to win with better tyres
3. Nurse the existing set to the finish
4. Go longer, lose a load of time, then put on primes and hope Hamilton could reel in Rosberg by over a second a lap with only slightly newer tyres to help him.

They chose the worst of the four.


I feel LH is getting too much of a say in the strategy decisions. It really can't be feasible to drive an F1 car at racing speeds and weigh up all the pros and cons of a strategy decision. Far better to have the race engineer do that and dictate the decision. It seems to me that the relationship between LH and his race engineer just hasn't been solid enough for that in 2015.

Agree with your initial analysis, completely illogical decision-making process. Lewis had closed up to within a second or so, so the obvious choice (for anyone with an ounce of sporting interest, or the interests of spectators at heart) is pit them in succeeding laps, and let them fight it out.

So of course they leave LH out until he has lost 8 or 9 seconds of his lead, then pit him for the same tyres he could have had laps ago - whereas at that point the SuperSofts would at least have given him a chance to make a race of it, whilst still safeguarding the 1-2 finish.

From the radio traffic I heard, it wasn't LH's decision.

To be kind its incompetent, to be cynical, deliberate obstruction of LH to bolster Rosberg's confidence.

Left a sour taste in the mouth

[gert]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

No doubt that it will come up in the interviews at some point, but the only reason that Rosberg beat Hamilton was because Mercedes have altered the set-ups of the cars and this penalises Hamilton. So, it's the car that won, not Rosberg; and Mercedes have only made the changes to keep Rosberg happy.

Sure thing.

Likewise during the first 13 races of the year the only reason Hamilton beat Rosberg was because Mercedes had initiated the set-ups of the cars to one that penalized Rosberg. So it was the car that won, and not Hamilton; and Mercedes did that to keep Hamilton happy.

[gert]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

From the radio traffic I heard, it wasn't LH's decision.

Toto Wolff said otherwise in the post-race interviews.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by gert

Toto Wolff said otherwise in the post-race interviews.

I know.........in those immortal words "he would say that, wouldn't he?"

[gert]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

I know.........in those immortal words "he would say that, wouldn't he?"

Don't know. He could have said "we put him on the same tires as Nico as we want to give both drivers on the same strategy and give them both the same chances" or he could have steered away from that question.

Wouldn't that be more obvious than telling something that is not true?

[S griffin]

Saw the highlights. So the stewards decided to give Alonso a penalty even though he collided in typical first corner style? Shouldn't be surprised, in Singapore they gave Hulk a grid penalty before they even interviewed him.

And as for Verstappen/Button, all I can say is thank goodness they weren't around during the Villeneuve/Arnoux battle. They banged wheels and were off the track as many times as on, yet no one cared. AndI think the blue flag rule needs to change so only if you do something dangerous

As for the Bottas/Button incident, normally Bottas would have tucked in behind Button, but it seems they forgot that Jenson needed to pull in.

And the fact Lewis needs to strategy to get past Nico these past three races shows there is something wrong in that he can't get past

Bit of a damp squib of a final, but that's Abu Dhabi for you. I can only hope this great sport can build on what's good and learn for the future

[bobec]

Originally Posted by sparkione

Absolutely right. Lewis deserved better than that from the team, who were only concerned with ensuring yet another 1-2 for the benefit of the visiting bigwigs. They care not a jot about racing, merely Merc's share price. Arrant favouritism towards the 'local boy', cynical disregard for the ethos of the 'sport'. No wonder Toto and Niki are at loggerheads...

Like others have said, I also suspect that the team had favored the other "local boy" for most of the year, and it's possible they now switched to keep them both happy.

I'm not really a LH or NR fan, and that's just what seems to be happening as far as I can see. I do agree that this is not true battling, maybe not even true racing. Mercedes's conduct in the DTM this season (which ended up winning them both titles though they were not the most dominant car) only serves to reinforce my suspicion that this is a team that relies heavily on hidden team orders, and a hidden (or obvious, as in the DTM) driver hierarchy

[gert]

Originally Posted by bobec

Like others have said, I also suspect that the team had favored the other "local boy" for most of the year, and it's possible they now switched to keep them both happy.

I don't think Mercedes prefer one over the other, not at the beginning and not at the end.
I think at every possibility they try to maximize their result. So, a 1-2 result if possible. Who is 1st and who 2nd is of little interest to them.
Everything the 2nd position driver tries to gain first place is also a risk of losing 2nd place, hence not the preferred route for the team, or even not allowed.

A risky strategy by Hamilton (like trying to get to the finish on one less stop) included the risk of losing 2nd place if it failed, since Raikkonen was only about 10 seconds behind at the end.
Hence: not going to happen.

That is how I think the Mercedes team operates.

[Paradise City]

A dry demonstration run for the Merc bigshots, yes.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

A dry demonstration run for the Merc bigshots, yes.

With the WDC and Constructor's, decided a while back, they don't want to be seen as a flash in a pan, .

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

A dry demonstration run for the Merc bigshots, yes.

With the WDC and Constructor's, decided a while back, it's all about keeping up appearances, .

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by gert

I don't think Mercedes prefer one over the other, not at the beginning and not at the end.
I think at every possibility they try to maximize their result. So, a 1-2 result if possible. Who is 1st and who 2nd is of little interest to them.
Everything the 2nd position driver tries to gain first place is also a risk of losing 2nd place, hence not the preferred route for the team, or even not allowed.

A risky strategy by Hamilton (like trying to get to the finish on one less stop) included the risk of losing 2nd place if it failed, since Raikkonen was only about 10 seconds behind at the end.
Hence: not going to happen.

That is how I think the Mercedes team operates.

Agreed. I don't like it, but I do understand it from Mercedes' point of view.

[Razzzor]

I know Nico has been a bit grumpy at times this year, being beaten to the title 2 years in a row I guess does that to you. But Lewis finishing 2nd the last couple of races, you'd think his cat just died or something. In the press conference he's his normal glum self. Nico and Lewis really don't get along at all do they? They are definitely not friends. I think even Seb and Mark got on better that this, even post multi 21 lol!

I didn't even think he was going to shake Nico's hand afterwards, he wouldn't look at him. Was grumpy as hell in the press conf. He must have forgotten he's the champ. Would love to see someone a bit happier next year. Can you imagine Ricciardo winning the title, but gets beaten to the win in the last race, then behaving like Lewis does towards Kyvat?

It does seem all very suspicious that as soon as Lewis' title is wrapped up, while Nico is in a tight fight for 2nd, suddenly Lewis can't keep up with Nico after being a few tenths clear all season. And he blames the car as well. So, what exactly has Mercedes done at the perfect time to allow Nico to win a few races? Is it intentional? One has to wonder.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by S griffin

And as for Verstappen/Button, all I can say is thank goodness they weren't around during the Villeneuve/Arnoux battle. They banged wheels and were off the track as many times as on, yet no one cared. AndI think the blue flag rule needs to change so only if you do something dangerous

the BRDC president was one of the stewards so Max got penalties for both incidents with BRDC members Button and Hamilton, ridiculous.

Warwick clearly wasn't impartial there.

I saw 1 shot of Hamilton waving behind the Toro Rosso, but he was not even close at that point.

[littleman]

Me thinks Mercedes are playing with the cars....and I think Hamilton does too.

Probably want to give Rosberg a confidence lift going into 2016. Just hope it stops now and next year is back to normal.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by littleman

Me thinks Mercedes are playing with the cars....and I think Hamilton does too.

Probably want to give Rosberg a confidence lift going into 2016. Just hope it stops now and next year is back to normal.

Back to normal, as in Rosberg playing second fiddle to Hamilton?

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by littleman

Me thinks Mercedes are playing with the cars....and I think Hamilton does too.

Probably want to give Rosberg a confidence lift going into 2016. Just hope it stops now and next year is back to normal.

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Back to normal, as in Rosberg playing second fiddle to Hamilton?

Or, they could keep it as is and let Rosberg win it next year.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Or, they could keep it as is and let Rosberg win it next year.

That would make a change but would Lulu be happy with that? I doubt it.

[sparkione]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Or, they could keep it as is and let Rosberg win it next year.

Or, they could trust their drivers' judgement and experience and let them RACE!

No, scrub that. Silly idea...

[Peter Mallett]

Agreed, I was just pointing out that suggesting they manipulate the cars to suit one driver means Lewis may not be that good, he just got the car built for his championship year and if so, they could do the same for Rosberg next year.

[gert]

I don't think they *purposely* engineer, develop or manipulate the car into a path that gives 1 driver the edge over the other.

Maybe Lewis is right and there have been developments to the car that just happen to suit Nico better than him. If so, probably that was because the engineers thought this was the best way to make the car faster, not to give Nico a better chance to beat Lewis.
If the developments prove to be successful (i.e. car is faster than before), then I think Lewis better gets used to driving it like this.

Other than car development, maybe it has something to do with tire pressures (something BBC suggested), or maybe he is just a little less committed to the race buildup as before (95% instead of 102%)

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by gert

I don't think they *purposely* engineer, develop or manipulate the car into a path that gives 1 driver the edge over the other.

My point exactly.

Originally Posted by gert

Maybe Lewis is right and there have been developments to the car that just happen to suit Nico better than him. If so, probably that was because the engineers thought this was the best way to make the car faster, not to give Nico a better chance to beat Lewis.
If the developments prove to be successful (i.e. car is faster than before), then I think Lewis better gets used to driving it like this.

Yup.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by gert

I don't think they *purposely* engineer, develop or manipulate the car into a path that gives 1 driver the edge over the other.

Maybe Lewis is right and there have been developments to the car that just happen to suit Nico better than him. If so, probably that was because the engineers thought this was the best way to make the car faster, not to give Nico a better chance to beat Lewis.
If the developments prove to be successful (i.e. car is faster than before), then I think Lewis better gets used to driving it like this.

Other than car development, maybe it has something to do with tire pressures (something BBC suggested), or maybe he is just a little less committed to the race buildup as before (95% instead of 102%)

Agree. I find the conspiracy theory stuff funny. Granted manipulations do happen, but apparently if Lewis doesn't win, the only answer is that something nefarious is going on?

I suggest that for 2016 he get more sleep and work harder. I am sure he will do just fine.

Richard

[Mike Harte]

I believe that Hamilton has not been able to adapt to the changes that Mercedes put in place when the FIA tightened the rules about tyre pressures; or maybe the changes just suited Rosberg more. However, it seems as though Hamilton's engineers removed one or more of the new suspension parts over the weekend in an attempt to keep Hamilton happier, but that obviously didn't work out either.

I am sure that if he doesn't party throughout the off-season and puts in some serious training sessions over the winter, then he should be able to come back fighting next year. I just hope that he returns without bringing the silly excuses, and drops the poor little me act.

[littleman]

And I used to believe that Volkswagen produced cars with very low carbon dioxide emissions........it's all in the software.

Hamilton cruises to his third World Title with 3 races still to go, then suddenly gets blown away over what's left of the season.

Not only that, but in Abu Dhabi, Rosberg finds a whopping 0.742 seconds between Q2 and Q3,while Hamilton, on the other hand, finds 0.144 secs.

Analyse that Mercedes!