Let's hear it for Williams

Glen · 20 Mar 2005, 10:59 (Ref:1256778)

Come on all you misery-mongers and merchants of doom - Williams proved themselves well able to compete at the sharp end this weekend. They have the courage and determination to get on with it and produce the changes to the car that are needed, and furthermore they have the drivers to deliver.

Anybody still want to try and suggest that Red Bull are putting them to shame, or that Williams are not a top three team? Please do post as such if you do - I could do with the laugh after the bitter dissappointment of losing my Webber podium bet, about twenty seconds after he acquired the position on track!

Knowlesy · 20 Mar 2005, 11:19 (Ref:1256799)

Williams are pretty solid at present. They have potential to be race winners certainly.......to a certain extent, I think they'll do what they did in 2003. They'll come on really strong from Imola onwards I reckon.

Championship challenge? Well, maybe not. But they certainly look a lot more solid and organised than last years dissapointing efforts. There is pace to be unlocked there.

ralf fan · 20 Mar 2005, 11:22 (Ref:1256803)

What a drive by Nick Heidfeld ... still some work to do before they catch up to the Renaults but definately potential winners...

Glen · 20 Mar 2005, 11:31 (Ref:1256818)

I think it is certain that would have been P3 (Webber) and 4 - which would have put them in 2nd in the CC.

Roll-on the next race.

Don K · 20 Mar 2005, 11:32 (Ref:1256825)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen

Anybody still want to try and suggest that Red Bull are putting them to shame, ...

OK, let me try...

------------

I think at this moment Red Bull are putting them to shame.

Williams had a big advantage over them to start with.
And we can expect Williams to improve a lot faster than Red Bull.
And Williams has 2 drivers who are about to reach the top, whereas Red Bull's drivers are supposed to be over the top (Coulthard) or a future talent (Klien).

And yet, after 2 races Red Bull are still ahead of Williams in the WCC.

Shame!

Dixie Flatline · 20 Mar 2005, 11:33 (Ref:1256828)

IIRC, Webber has said that the car is not quite fast enough just yet and qualifying third in Australia was flattering to deceive. IIRC, it's in the Autosport after the Aussie GP.

Silk Cut Jaguar · 20 Mar 2005, 11:36 (Ref:1256832)

Don's right. All the teams are out there for points and currently Red Bull are doing a better job of it than Williams.

Williams have managed to find more speed in their car incredibly quickly since Melbourne but I don't think they will be anything more than podium contenders for the next few races as Renault are going to take some beating.

Glen · 20 Mar 2005, 11:38 (Ref:1256834)

Aussie GP was two weeks ago, and in that very short time Williams have played to their traditional strengths of engineering quality and depth and gutsy drivers. Quali third in Oz probably did flatter the car a little - this weekend's performance from both cars showed them in a truer light. BTW - Melbourne qualifying and race was more flattering to Red Bull than any other team!

I take the point about RBR still being ahead though - but you will get the promised laugh out of me if you want to suggest that that situation will prevail into the European season.

Silk Cut Jaguar · 20 Mar 2005, 11:42 (Ref:1256838)

It's obvious Red Bull are going to be over taken in the points in the next few races. DC has even mentioned it in interviews purely because they don't have the resources to push development as quickly as Toyota, Williams, etc do.

Williams may have found extra speed in two weeks, but it doesn't mean the next steps will come as quickly or with the same success. We've seen it in past seasons where their performances have gone up and down.

Glen · 20 Mar 2005, 11:49 (Ref:1256848)

McLaren could get back in to the mix too - they should anyway.

Silk Cut Jaguar · 20 Mar 2005, 12:09 (Ref:1256868)

I hope they do.

It's shaping up to be an excellent season.

Bellof · 20 Mar 2005, 12:10 (Ref:1256869)

while rbr is indeed a single point ahead of williams, don't forget that this is only due to two accidents of the williams drivers in point-scoring positions. so while i'm happy for rbr's solid performances, williams is certainly still the stronger team. so for me it is no shame to either of them.

Sodemo · 20 Mar 2005, 12:20 (Ref:1256874)

Yes, apparently they brought 14 new areo pieces to Sepang in order to try and improve the car, and it seems to have done some good.

The good sign is that Williams "know where the problems lie" with their current car, which is good as in 2004 it was the opposite, they had no idea what was wrong with the car.

I'm sure they will have some more bits for Imola.

Don K · 20 Mar 2005, 12:47 (Ref:1256890)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellof

while rbr is indeed a single point ahead of williams, don't forget that this is only due to two accidents of the williams drivers in point-scoring positions. so while i'm happy for rbr's solid performances, williams is certainly still the stronger team. so for me it is no shame to either of them.

Yes, of course.

But they should not even be competing.
Williams is supposed to be in another league.

Even without those accidents, Williams would only have about twice as much points as Red Bull.
Which is not good enough, imho.

gert · 20 Mar 2005, 13:50 (Ref:1256922)

RBR is 3rd currently

If I follow your logic,
7 teams are behind them, of which 5 of them need to be asshamed?

esorniloc · 20 Mar 2005, 14:12 (Ref:1256935)

10th on the grid to 3rd in the race shows the car has some pace.

There were new parts on the car this weekend that were not tested, when they are even more improvements should come.

Testure · 20 Mar 2005, 14:16 (Ref:1256939)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen

I take the point about RBR still being ahead though - but you will get the promised laugh out of me if you want to suggest that that situation will prevail into the European season.

Well, duh

A team with the financial backing and engineering resources of Williams should bloody well hope to be ahead of Red Bull by then!

Red Bull are doing better than their size would have predicted. Williams are doing worse than their size would predict (and they're not the only ones). Nobody is expecting Red Bull to beat Williams in the championship.

deeks6 · 20 Mar 2005, 14:18 (Ref:1256942)

Happy with the "look" of the result...great drive by Nick and also by MW until Fisi brain fade.
Confident now that they'll get regular podiums and a win or 2 by year end. They are contenders.

Hazard · 20 Mar 2005, 14:24 (Ref:1256945)

Let's hear it for Williams then and congratulation for being better than McLaren & Ferrari so far.

Too bad none of them were planning on Renault, Toyota & Red Bull being ahead of the three of them at the end of the second race!

Don K · 20 Mar 2005, 14:24 (Ref:1256946)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gert

RBR is 3rd currently

If I follow your logic,
7 teams are behind them, of which 5 of them need to be asshamed?

I think Ferrari, Williams and McLaren should be ashamed. Red Bull Racing should be nowhere near them.

BAR should be ahead of Red Bull Racing. If they are still trailing them after 3 more races, they should be ashamed.

Sauber should be trying to compete with Red Bull Racing. They may get beaten, but I think they do have to (more or less) compete.
So if the gap grows to 50 points, they should be ashamed. Or they will have to accept that Red Bull Racing is in a different league now.

Glen · 20 Mar 2005, 14:45 (Ref:1256969)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Testure

Well, duh

A team with the financial backing and engineering resources of Williams should bloody well hope to be ahead of Red Bull by then!

Red Bull are doing better than their size would have predicted. Williams are doing worse than their size would predict (and they're not the only ones). Nobody is expecting Red Bull to beat Williams in the championship.

Well, duh - that is precisely my point. Some people were talking just a few weeks days ago of Williams being on dreadful decline and no longer in the top category, and what I have been saying here is how quickly we find out what an absurd postulation that was. You probably want to find out what you're talking about before you duh me.

Sodemo · 20 Mar 2005, 15:06 (Ref:1256985)

Too bad BMW were forced to scrap their "super aggressive P85 engine design" and had to resort to modding last years unit.

Testure · 20 Mar 2005, 15:18 (Ref:1256995)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen

Well, duh - that is precisely my point. Some people were talking just a few weeks days ago of Williams being on dreadful decline and no longer in the top category, and what I have been saying here is how quickly we find out what an absurd postulation that was. You probably want to find out what you're talking about before you duh me.

Hey, sorry, no offence intended! Extra smilies required, methinks.

In your earlier post you seemed to be suggesting that people had been expecting RBR to challenge Williams for the course of the season (or at least "into the European season"). As you note above, however, that was not the case - the earlier discussions were really about why Williams haven't started a season as title contenders (or ever contenders for regular race wins) for a while now. It's the same again this year, even this weekend we've heard stories about personnel bring untested parts to the grand prix in suitcases. Their ability to do that kind of speedy development work comes from their position as a top team, but it surely indicates some sort of problem that those kind of measures are required? As if it's a cultural thing in the team.

Inigo Montoya · 20 Mar 2005, 15:21 (Ref:1256997)

Yes, excellent race for Williams! They may be a force, after all.

luke · 20 Mar 2005, 15:27 (Ref:1256998)

I must say, I never thought Williams, would be this good. However they're only 5th. Toyota and Red Bull, have been my biggest suprise.

Although its only 3 points difference from, 6th to 2nd.

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