Lites / LMP3

[Coach Ep]

P3 a success according to the ACO:

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/elms/...ome-a-success/

US appearances still a big question mark.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

P3 a success according to the ACO:

Well then everything is ok!

[Deleted]

I can already see the calendar of this theoretical NA LMP3 series

R1) 2 Hours of Circuit of the Americas
R2) 1 Hour of Montreal Gilles Villeneuve
R3) 2 Hours of Indianapolis
R4) 2 Hours of Mexico City
R5) 2 Hours of Circuit of the Americas

All standalone with no other series barring maybe Porsche Cup, except for sprint support race for Canadian GP on late Friday afternoon long after the end of F1 FP2, and at Mexico on Saturday of WEC weekend there. All rounds would clash with IMSA

[Giba]

I hope IMSA look into LMP3 again as it should be the replacement for PC. Otherwise, where and when will they run? It's doubtful that they will run on the IMSA timetable as its full already and I don't think IMSA would be interested. So then it's another series but who would want to have P3 as there top catergory and potentially alienate there current competitors.

In short, if they are not in IMSA then I doubt they will race in America as a championship but I don't think thats a major problem for the category, just a problem probably for Riley-Ave.

[Deleted]

If ACO is willing to run sprint LMP3(/CN) series in Asia for some reason there's nothing stopping them for doing same in America

IMSA us lost cause in this. They'll continue with FLM09 and then it's followup spec Oreca until the series breaks spart

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Giba

I hope IMSA look into LMP3 again as it should be the replacement for PC. Otherwise, where and when will they run? It's doubtful that they will run on the IMSA timetable as its full already and I don't think IMSA would be interested. So then it's another series but who would want to have P3 as there top catergory and potentially alienate there current competitors.

In short, if they are not in IMSA then I doubt they will race in America as a championship but I don't think thats a major problem for the category, just a problem probably for Riley-Ave.

I do not think it should not be the replacement chassis for PC. It could be the top chassis in IMSA Lites, it can be used as a track-day car, SCCA competition, are among other possibilities for which it could be used.






L.P.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

I do not think it should not be the replacement chassis for PC. It could be the top chassis in IMSA Lites, it can be used as a track-day car, SCCA competition, are among other possibilities for which it could be used.

P3 SHOULD be replacing the PC cars. LMP3 was created explicitly for the job that LMPC is currently doing in IMSA. It's too expensive to be sued for Prototype Lites - the Elan NP01 would be a better choice if you were going to replace the P Lites cars.

[Deleted]

If it went to Lites the current runners would moan

And P3 runners would moan for having only miniature sprint races positioned awkwardly in weekend schedule and with zero media coverage. While their way less sophisticated, much older spec sister cars would get spotlight in main series

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

P3 SHOULD be replacing the PC cars. LMP3 was created explicitly for the job that LMPC is currently doing in IMSA. It's too expensive to be sued for Prototype Lites - the Elan NP01 would be a better choice if you were going to replace the P Lites cars.

Agree

[Coach Ep]

On a 'somewhat lower level' there's also the NARRA (North American Road Racing Association) "US Prototype Championship" which is basically a club series with only a handful of cars and in 2015 only 3 (!) races. Things might get a little bigger in 2016 and perhaps we'll see a couple of P3s showing up there.

Also they might be allowed into SCCA club racing as P1 (former ASR). [Don't you just love those different classifications for the same car?!]

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

P3 SHOULD be replacing the PC cars. LMP3 was created explicitly for the job that LMPC is currently doing in IMSA. It's too expensive to be sued for Prototype Lites - the Elan NP01 would be a better choice if you were going to replace the P Lites cars.

But not by IMSA. Why force P3 onto your series entrants if they don't want to?

The current Lites cars are Elans too so that makes sense, I bet that after a trial year with NASA (not to be mistaken with NARRA) in 2016 the cars will be used by IMSA as well. P3 would still fit alongside those. And no, current entrants wouldn't be alienated as they are the prime buyers that IMSA would be aiming at. It would make perfectly sense for a WSCS prototype (challenge) team to have a car (or multiple ones) running in Lites to 'foster' their youngsters - in fact, that's actually what's happening already with teams like JDC. A P3 program would fit right into that.

Anyway, the Lites are awesome!

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

P3 SHOULD be replacing the PC cars. LMP3 was created explicitly for the job that LMPC is currently doing in IMSA. It's too expensive to be sued for Prototype Lites - the Elan NP01 would be a better choice if you were going to replace the P Lites cars.

Agreed. It's the sensible thing to do, and IMSA/NASCAR/whoever made a dumb mistake by looking at one wet preliminary version of an LMP3 and casting it off.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

But not by IMSA. Why force P3 onto your series entrants if they don't want to?

I've mentioned this too many times already, but of course the LMPC owners don't want anything new that costs them money and is different. Because from their perspective there is no need to change things. They have nothing to do with automotive industry, not really. Everything is fine as it is forever.

And that is why - in benefit of the whole class - you don't listen to them but just perform the change by force. If the owners are not happy then say take it or get out. Sometimes you need to make decisions not 100% satisfactory within your customers, to advance the evolution that is ultimately required. This is business not charity.

Everything lasts a period of time in cycle of life, some longer and some shorter. But the season of change needs to happen sooner or later. You can't plant seeds on spring if winter keeps lasting forever, and you certainly cannot harvest the crop.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

But not by IMSA. Why force P3 onto your series entrants if they don't want to?

Because what the entrants want and a series/class NEEDS do not always line up. Several P entrants in IMSA are rather upset at the upcoming changes in 2017 because they don't want to move away from the current DP cars. Many were opposed to the upgrade of the DP cars during the merger.

But the series has to force change when change is necessary, and the entrants need to adapt. Those entrants that were opposed to the DP overhaul during the merger? One already grabbed himself a P2 car to get a jump on the future.

Times change, and the opinions of the old guard will never stop it. They can either adapt, or fade away and be replaced.

[Deleted]

Look at DP circa 2006-2008 or so. You had 30 entry grids in one class. By anyones definition that could be considered a success. Successful customer business model. But nobody cared for it or watched it.

Yet it doesn't have to be that a category which is either successful business wise OR fan wise, it CAN be BOTH. Secondary category doesn't have to be there just for numbers. If you at least try. No-one would have guessed that Don Paniz could create universally acclaimed series out of some weird French rules involving long Marathon races and weird looking UFO cars, in a market of NASCAR and whatnot, but he did. You don't need dumb stock cars and make drivers stars and throw in green white checkers to create popular formula, nor do you need boring cheap economy vehicle to make good customer base environment. You just need to take a chance.

Now the above paragraph really involves whole lot of more than just the issue at hand. But . Steps need to be taken.

We must all remember that while LMPC was obviously utilized as grid filler in ALMS (just like now), it was still an internationally and ACO recognized category between 2010-2013. Being ELMS, ILMC, LM test day and (theoretical) ASLMS compliant. But now it is completely obsolete and outdated piece of fossil. Zero internationality, no current chassis structure lineage and by 2017 it will be 8 years old as PC chassis, and much older Courage P1/P2 plastic surgery patient

I'm not gonna pretend LMP3 to have formula of dreams, and clearly many further steps will have to be taken to get things fully working, but the foundations for internationally relevant junior format are there.

Or maybe IMSA is just scared of getting rid of Oreca monopoly because Chevy has told them they like seeing their title on the TV graphics every single time the class is shown. And that the P3s couldn't be modified for other than spec Nissan. Who knows. But it that would be another case of just being counter productive and keeping status quo.

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

P3 a success according to the ACO:

Wakey, wakey, ACO has the touch of the Gods! Everything they do turns gold.

[GT-Eins]

G-Private today presented their first Adess 03 LMP3:



Article:
http://www.gt-eins.at/cms/index.php?...10477&Itemid=1

[Deleted]

French GT is visiting Marrakech next year so first ever street race for LMP3s. Crashy circuit...

Ledenon also clashes with LM test day so no P3 guest entries from there. Though the test is probably oversubscribed anyway even with the extra garages. The testing max cap at Sarthe is 70 cars but they don't actually let that many physically in, as proved by this year there being reserve list although it was barely over 60 entries...

[Coach Ep]

P3 given a(nother) boost by letting them join the GT3 support race for the 24H at LM.

[FIRE]

Instead of the ACO GT3 series I would rather see an ACO LMP3 series.

[Graham Goodwin]

The Le Mans GT3 race is for the LMP3s too

[Coach Ep]

Plus LMP3 is to feature heavily in ELMS in 2016!

[J Jay]

Well you can't accuse the ACO of doing things by half...

[Coach Ep]

IMSA should do something similar and have a series with P3, 'GT3 Am' + whoever wants to enter its Lambo Trofeo, Ferrari Challenge or Porsche Cup cars.

No factory or full time Pro drivers allowed, just bronze/silver/part-time gold ones. Gold only with bronze, rest is okay.

Have 5 or 6 races and pick any of the non street events in the US (Daytona, Sebring, Laguna Seca, Lime Rock, Watkins Glen, Road America, VIR, CotA, Road Atlanta).

[FormulaFox]

Since nobody's mentioned it yet, the Ginetta handily outran the Ligier at Estoril. Consistently around a second faster, sometimes more - guess getting it down to weight went further than expected.