BRSCC Brands training day

[staid davenport]

Hi. Does anyone know whats going to be happening at the BRSCC training day at Brands next weekend? (I think its next weekend...?)

Is it going to be similar to the BARC one the other day?

Thankyou,

[archaic gold]

The Training Day is being organised bythe BRSCC(SE) with help from the BMMC(SE). Saturday will be mainly for Observers, Flags and Incident Officers.
Sunday is to cover the remaining disciplines; Course, Incident ,Trainees, and Specialists. Signing on from 0800-0900 hours in the HAILWOODS Restaurant.
You MUST advise Anne Rothberg if you wish to attend. @ 88 Addington Village Road, Addington Village, Croydon, Surrey. CRO 5AQ
Entry to Brands Hatch must be via the MAIN GATE from the A20 - NOT Paddock Entrance.
Sunday's Training WILL include Practical Fire Training!

[danccooke]

Is that as in this coming Sunday (Feb 25th)
Is there an Email contact for Anne?

[Stephen Green]

Thr the BRSCC SE page for details

[brandspost4a]

Originally Posted by danccooke

Is that as in this coming Sunday (Feb 25th)
Is there an Email contact for Anne?

Yep this Sunday. email is ....... annerothberg@blueyonder.co.uk

though her mail box was "playing up" the last time Itried to email her.

[Stoowert]

I've just got back from the Saturday edition of BRSCC's Training, and a few intersting things came up:
1. There seems to general confusion re the new grading scheme. Not even Dave Pierre seems comfortable with it...
2. There seems to be a general groundswell of opinion that we should give radios more of a chance. No real argument for telephones was put forward, except Bernie Cotterell was agin radios. (Bernie wasn't there to give his point of view, but a vociferous defence of phones came from race control)
3. " Stand Down on Post" Means just that. Stand down but don't wander off as we intend to start soon.
4. DP Doesn't like 10 Tenths. He has no respect for people who hide behind a false name.
5. Joining the BRSCC was seen to be good value for your £30.00. You get into the Autosport Show free. With only 4 meetings at Brands and none at Lydden, very little chance of getting much reduction. "It's like joining a golf club and complaining about the green fees". Can't quite see the link myself!

I may give it a miss next year...

I'm sorry if I appear a ****-stirrer, or if I've got all wrong, but at least I'm not hiding behind a false name!

Stuart Hamilton
Ex BRSCC

[Stephen Green]

The telephone versus radio issue will continue to drag on I believe. Barry and Julie will always press for telephones for somewhat obvious reasons, nowt we can do to change that.

As for the grading scheme, yes there are many who are confused but I believe it will settle down once people start to use it in practice, or at least I hope so.

Ten-tenths is a difficult issue. There are those who don't care about the lack of real names and those who do. There are people at all levels who dislike it because I believe they feel we shouldn't have a voice about what happens. There again there are those who make things very public, Chris Hobson for example, and keep all of us in the picture regardless of what club we may or may not be a member of.

We each have to decide for ourselves whether the BRSCC give value for money as marshals. I happen to agree with you Stoowert that 4 meetings at Brands doesn't give anyone the opportunity to get remotely close to getting half their subscription back. The BARC on the other hand is excellent value for money in that (and many other) respects.

[archaic gold]

I have to agree with all that Stephen says! I also find ten-tenths a fascinating 'open-forum', and most of the regular contributors know exactly who we are. I find it interesting to gain the views of the 'grass-roots' Marshals on the many topics that are aired.

As far as the BRSCC are concerned, I, also, could not justify the £30 pa. Not so much the few Meetings, but I belong to some 4 other Motor Racing Clubs (including the BMMC!!!), and have other interests such as Passenger Transport, both Road and Rail, and ex HM Forces Associations. Add them all up, and I am approaching nearly £300 pa in Subs! That IS a sobering thought!

[Novice]

Well an interesting day. As Stoowert said the radio v telephone provoked a strong debate and I think Dave Pierre was hoping that the ground would open up and swallow him. The talk on accident investigation was very good and well received by all. As for the individual sessions, I cant speak for Flags and I/O, the Observer one didnt seem to cover much about observing but more about what race control and others have to do.

The aggressive Chief Marshal was seeming to single out individuals for not having their photo on their license, yes I know it is a requirement and I was one of them, others simply did not have their license but just their record card. Although she shows no favoritism.

The new grading system seemed to throw a lot of confusion about the place with us initially being told we could use the old upgrade system for the remainder of this year with the new one coming in next year. This was changed by the end of the day and I was told I could not use the existing upgrade card.

I also remembered why I did not rejoin the BRSCC and wont be doing any of their meetings this year.

Alan

[archaic gold]

Originally Posted by Novice

The new grading system seemed to throw a lot of confusion about the place with us initially being told we could use the old upgrade system for the remainder of this year with the new one coming in next year. This was changed by the end of the day and I was told I could not use the existing upgrade card.

I also remembered why I did not rejoin the BRSCC and wont be doing any of their meetings this year.

Alan

The old Grading system as I have been given to understand from quite high authority is STILL in use until the 31st December 2007!! Marshals seeking upgrading in Flag and Incident grades should attempt to gain ALL their signatures by this date. They will then automatically be graded EXPERIENCED MARSHALS when the new system should operate wef !st January 2008. All existing Flag and Incident Marshals of these grades will also automatically be graded EXPERIENCED at this date; ie; 1st January 2008.
Obviously, if you have your Training Signatures today (at Brands), then you have the rest of the year to gain the necessary upgrading signatures and pass your completed documents through your Club's Chief Marshal/Grading Officer

[Stephen Green]

Gerry is correct. If you are part way through upgrading, then you have until the end of this year to complete the change. After that the only way is through the new scheme.

If you want some extra clarification on the scheme visit the BMMC website where Chris Hobson has very kindly added a FAQ section which answers most questions.

This is the first year since I started marshalling that I won't be doing a BRSCC meeting. It feels strange but then again there are very few meetings to volunteer for in the SE. I swore that I would never marshal a FFF again last year for personal reasons, and I am sticking to my guns.

[Eddy V]

It wasn't a bad day yesterday. Expected some more proper issues handled, but it was okay.

The Observer part was a big joke, that should have been another coffee break instead.
Customer service, yeah right! What about us, as someone mentioned?

I don't care much about the BRSCC problems, they (as well as many others) have been very kind to me over the years.
Maybe the problem some have with BRSCC is the same one I have in Belgium.

[Stoowert]

Eddy is right about about the Observers seminar thingy.

Firstly we were shunted into a broom cupboard. There was an overhead projector and a bloke in jeans. He said hello and introduced himself. Sadly, I missed his name, but he said straight away that this was not his presentation and he'd been give less that 24 hours notice! Good start.

He then attempted to go through the presentation, of which some we couldn't read. He then tried to get us on board the notion that the drivers/entrants were our customers and we should offer professional customer service on behalf of the BRSCC. I put my head on the chopping block by saying I felt insulted by this initiative, when we were are, in effect, customers of the BRSCC, and very little, if any was being seen to be done to improve the lot of the marshals! I also said that I'm not a member, so why should I be concerned about the status of the club, as against the sport in general. I did sense that most of the observers present are members, and good luck to them. When ordinary voters file into polling stations, they're not worried about the finances of the political party they vote for!

Anyway, Eddy said it should've been another coffee break. He has a point!

[Eddy V]

Don't I always!

Seriously, why should anyone want / need to tell me I have to be friendly and helpfull to drivers who pulled off / crashed at my post?

Right, I will start and scream my head off to the guy. Because that is how I would like to be treated.

Do they really think we are that dumb or unfriendly? I know there are a lot of marshals or even Observers who think they are the best the world ever produced and think they can get away with anything. Is that a reason to treat us all that way?

I've marshalled for 36 years now (30 as an Obs), never have I said a bad word to a driver, official, spectator or whoever. Bar, and I'm very honest now, when they start bullying me (happened maybe 5 times).
Common sense. I guess.

[KayBee]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

This is the first year since I started marshalling that I won't be doing a BRSCC meeting. It feels strange but then again there are very few meetings to volunteer for in the SE. I swore that I would never marshal a FFF again last year for personal reasons, and I am sticking to my guns.

So with all this free time why don't you come and visit us at Oulton/Anglesey especially for the Anglesey opening meeting (BRSCC NW) Late Spring Bank Holiday weekend or the Gold Cup meeting August Bank Holiday weekend at Oulton a joint HSCC/BRSCC NW meeting.

This way you'll get to do some BRSCC Meetings.

[archaic gold]

That is Saturday over; now today, Sunday. Firstly, congratulations to the BRSCC(SE) for an excellently organised Training Day; especially to their Chief Marshal, Anne Rothberg, and not to forget Mildred Wiltshire behind the scenes getting it all up and running, including the hot drinks. The Catering for Lunch was superb, although the Shepherd's Pie was sonn to run out, leaving an excellent Chile Concanni.
Incident Handling and Fire Training were both excellent behind Druids Corner, and it was pleasing that what is probably the most expensive part of a Training Day was well organised and enabled Marshals to receive a signature at last. So, finally, Many Thanks to ALL the Trainers.

[adstubbs]

Thanks to all involved in the organisation and running of today's training - useful and enjoyable all round. Lunch was very much appreciated, although sticky toffee pudding is probably not ideal food for marshalling on! Was good to see so many new or recently joined marshals as well. Roll on March 11th and Mallory Park!

[Bodysnatcher]

I'm pretty much in agreement with what Stoowart said about Saturday.

It was sad to hear DP lose it when 10ths was brought up.
I like DP. Strange how a website that the high ups don't read produces such a vitriolic response about ~"**** stirrers that hide behind funny names".
We know we should bring things out in the open via the chiefs of the clubs that we marshal for, but.....
If another chief replies with "I hear what your saying" or "I'll make sure this gets taken further" I swear my head will explode.
Radios vs phones - well it was finally revealed why we don't really use radios at Brands. I pray that we will never see the day when we have a problem, where, at some form of enquiry, it is asked whether a reasonable person might have thought that a radio network was a more efficient form of communication.

Anyway, as a freelancer, I feel no problem about asking all and sundry on hear about things that don't get resolved at the local level.

BTW strange we did'nt see anyone from the major club promoting race meetings at Brands was'nt it?

[Bodysnatcher]

and as for bringing on new marshals, I've found the net is a brilliant way of getting oin touch with newbies...

Alasdair (in case anyone up there on high who does'nt read this has forgotten)

[Bryan Degerlund]

[QUOTE=Bodysnatcher]If another chief replies with "I hear what your saying" or "I'll make sure this gets taken further" I swear my head will explode.


Al,

I hear what you were saying on Saturday about manning levels on post 24 so that my request for assistance to Startline can be met. I'll make sure this gets taken further.

But, as they say --"don't hold your breath!!

Bryan

[Stephen Green]

I think it sad that DP should be so negative about a site that does so much to promote marshalling in as many areas as possible. I understand that many clubs do not wish for their staff to post here, but why openly knock something that strives to be positive in every manner?

I guess Dave must read ten-tenths or he wouldn't know some of us use alternative names.

[Bodysnatcher]

let me clarify, I don't believe DP knocked 10ths as such.

When 10ths was mentioned (the question about "what does stand down on post mean"?, thanks Stoo), DP got heated about use of the internet in general and people posting crap about race meetings whilst using a pseudonym. As is usual for many chiefs, he stated that he did'nt read 10ths.

Not sure which was the bigger problem for him
crap (as defined by him)
or the web user's love of alternate identities.
but as I said, DP is someone who's opinion and ideas I value highly.

Anyway, he gave an answer to the question, but again got a wee bit heated. I guess I'd already found out from asking the question here that the answer varies according to club (or perhaps which CoC) is running the day's show.

I'll freely admit there is (as anywhere on the net) a problem with the useful/useless information ratio. Luckily, I posses a filter known as a brain.

To Mr Degerlund - thanks, I hear what you're saying!

[archaic gold]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

BTW strange we did'nt see anyone from the major club promoting race meetings at Brands was'nt it?

Alasdair, I am not to sure what you are trying to say here? The Major Club, by promotions, must be the BARC!; but then it is the major Circuit in the remit of MSV Racing; but they are NOT a Club.
Therefore, I can only add it was a BRSCC(SE) Show, infact, Anne's show; and a pretty good job she did of it!! (Applause!!). Of course, it is MSA funded to a limit, but every Club in the South-East was invited to send Marshals, (and some we know are not in ANY CLUB!!) However, the buck stopped with the BRSCC(SE), and I consider it was right to only have their own Senior Members there, such as Bernard Cottrell (National Chairman)
Signed: GERRY.

[Bodysnatcher]

Gerry I'm not stirring it, but on reflection.. (this came to me afterwards, not on the day)

I thought the meeting was being organised by BRSCC with BMMC input? With MSA trainers.

Originally Posted by archaic gold

The Training Day is being organised bythe BRSCC(SE) with help from the BMMC(SE).

It was a training day and I recognise that a lot of people put a lot of effort into doing it. I am not being critical of the training day, but someone was missing.

I don't know why, and perhaps given the history of the BRSCC and it's attitude to 10ths, this is'nt the place to ask why.

But lets not get confused about it then, let's be clear.
On 2 levels

MSV are the circuit owners and the clubs that put on racing are their customers. So if we assume that most (but not all)of the marshals present were BRSCC members, then no MSV person was there to address a customer's meeting (regards circuit infrastructure, that sort of thing, which the clubs are paying for). BHL put people up in the past.

Likewise, I found it strange that the division of MSV that arranges race meetings (be it a race club or not - that's just semantics as far as I'm concerned) that is known as MSVR was not present in some capacity.

If you argue that BARC are the major club at Brands then I can say that more marshals than before who consider themselves primarily Brands marshals attended or thought seriously about attending the BARC Thruxton training day.

Lets face it, MSVR are running the most car race meetings in 2007 and for the core meetings will be mainly reliant on the BRSCC's membership (or ex-members). They will also be running 3 major meetings FIA WTCC, DTM and A1GP.

Both DTM and WTCC had niggles last year. A1GP was very successfully run the year before but that was really a BRSCC event.

So, this was just a thought, a reflection on the day's proceedings. Maybe something to think about in future? Nothing sinister, honest.

Alasdair

[archaic gold]

Firstly, BS, I did not read anything "sinister" in what you say, and this is what Ten-tenths is all about, people expressing their freedom of speech.
In the way you eloquently phrased it, perhaps MSV should have sent a representative on at least one day! Were they invited to send somebody, begs the question??
Help from the BMMC(SE); Yes!; but I got a hundred lines and the threat of the cane from 'Teach' for that!! I just meant that quite a few of the Trainers were not also BRSCC Members but BMMC Members in their own right, and I was just trying to clarify the fact for some of the newer Marshals who avidly read ten-tenths that is was open to ALL Club Marshals. I was getting the odd e-mail and telephone call stating that it wuld appear that only fully paid-up Members of the BRSCC were able to attend. This, of course was not true. GERRY