2012 a tough year for Marshals?

[MacGWC]

The last major exodus of marshals from our sport was in the late 1990’s, the reasons then much the same as now, i.e. lack of decent on-circuit facilities, timetabling, etc and at that time, petrol hitting £4 a gallon for the first time. (Wouldn’t we settle for that price now?!) There was another minor exodus in 2008 as the present financial crisis began to bite, camouflaged to a large extent by the ongoing success of various recruitment campaigns run by BMMC, supported by the MSA, BTCC and the circuit owners.

In October 2011, as we opened the renewal season for 2012, there were ominous signs that the financial crisis was now hitting everyone and there was an instant flutter of direct debit cancellations, plus statements on Ten-Tenths that many marshals would be cutting back or quitting altogether in 2012. We reported this to the Association of British Motor Racing Clubs. There was a sympathetic response, perhaps a little muted from the organising clubs who were already struggling to make money, but largely sympathetic nonetheless.

The matter was further discussed within BMMC and a variety of reports and suggestions forwarded to the MSA. A summary of this situation is now on our web site www.marshals.co.uk for your information. (Great cartoon by Jim Bamber!) There is not a comment facility on our web site but I am happy to receive comments via the current thread on Ten-Tenths or by email to Nat.Treasurer@marshals.co.uk

In trying to assess opinion, I suppose we must recognise that between the two extremes of those marshals who would marshal for ever for no reward, other than a job well done amidst a gang of good mates, and those who are now saying they simply cannot afford to continue, there is the great majority of marshals who do appreciate a little help from the clubs. Historically it is from this silent majority that most marshals simply drift away and although we can keep the numbers up by continued recruiting, this recruiting and the constant training of new marshals is not without cost to the sport as a whole. Our aim must be to retain a few more of those we already have; hence our suggestions to make the marshal feel a little more appreciated than is sometimes the case.

George Copeland
Marshals' & Officials' Rep on ABMRC
Nat Treasurer BMMC

[Steve Fox]

Originally Posted by Apple

I personally am not bothered about getting a lunch break,The five ten or even fifteen mins break we get in between races is enough fro me.
I enjoy being occupied all the time I'm there.
I know that does not suit everyone.
Mick

As a self employed person I never have lunch breaks, 5 minutes "Al desko" during my 11 hour workday is the norm and so I am one of those to whom lack of a lunch break is not a problem, in fact quite the opposite, I find being forced to relax rather distracting.
Also I can't see what the problem is with making the day busier, there is not much that is more boring than standing about waiting for races that are deliberately spaced (usually to coincide with telly) and so I for one would welcome a day that is a little more hectic and having spent an hour in the car to get there a full day (curfew to curfew) makes good use of my time.
Now, having said that I do appreciate some people,(maybe they normally have desk jobs or a less active day) will need to have regular breaks or start to get a bit tetchy when the day goes past the 8 hour mark, we are a very diverse crowd and although it would be nice to please everyone that isn't going to happen. Maybe it would be possible to get some indication of how long/busy the day will be when signing up for it (like the old "racing ahead" meetings) so those who don't fancy a "slow" or conversely a "hectic" day can pick and choose?

[SuperDuff]

Originally Posted by MacGWC

With many marshals spending £200+ for a weekend's marshalling I am not sure your "free" ticket - even if for the best seat in the house as another contributer described it - is really "free"!

I am a bit concerned that if people are spending over £200 on a weekend and then moaning and groaning about it on here - why bother marshalling at all? Surely if it is the racing that keeps you entertained, then it would be cheaper to buy a ticket and spec it, thus affording lunch breaks, toilet stops and supporting the event? I am genuinely interested in how you spend £200 going to a UK race (and perhaps I have missed the point, perhaps you refer to internationals). Living in Devon, there is no circuit racing down here, Silverstone is our preferred circuit - that is one tank of petrol (call it £60). The eating thing is moot as I assume that you eat on a normal non-marshalling weekends too, and all circuits I have been to offer camping (which has been free). Ok, the overalls aren't free, but surely £17 on a pair from BMMC (and ok, the joining fee) isn't exactly stretching the budget, and other clubs run a loyalty type scheme.

Ten tenths is a great resource for information and pointing in the right direction, but to assume that some of these types of issues affect all of us is narrow minded and ridiculous. My other hobby is horses - you don't see me complaining about a lack of breaks to the horse - and it is similarly long days.

Summary - if you don't want to marshal (for whatever reason), surely the simple solution is don't do it.

[pauln]

Thank you George, that's a calm and well-reasoned piece. Had you thought of sending a copy directly to Ben Anderson?

I know that Silverstone have been insisting for the past few years that clubs run to a timetable with a clear 40 minute break at lunchtime - excluding clear-up from the last session of the morning and gridding for the first of the afternoon. There are one or two known exceptions around endurance racing (the Birkett springs to mind), and here I'm firmly in the camp that says I'm ok with it so long as it stays as an exception and I know in advance. They've also been quite successful at insisting that lunch bags are provided on other occasions.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by MacGWC

A summary of this situation is now on our web site www.mashals.co.uk for your information.

You rather try www.marshals.co.uk

[MacGWC]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

You rather try www.marshals.co.uk

Oooops!

Sorry, correct address is of course www.marshals.co.uk; missed one of my r's again!

[LandieLad]

I seem to recall, back in the days of yore - the mid or late 1990's -, an article in one of the broadsheet newpapers - The Daily Telegraph I think - with the headlines of something akin to "Would You Do This For 50p An Hour". The article was in the relation to the £5.00 paid to marshals at the British GP. Not forgetting of course all the other meetings this dedicated band of lads of lasses attend.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by SuperDuff

Summary - if you don't want to marshal (for whatever reason), surely the simple solution is don't do it.

And where would we be if everyone took that advice? I'm sorry to go on about Donington, but I made exactly that decision several years ago because of their timetabling. Watching from the outside it's interesting to see how often there are posts regarding this circuit on two basic subjects:

1) If you don't like it, don't come.
2) Why are there so few marshals at Donington so often.

Pretty confident 2) is explained by 1). I wouldn't want that to be the case everywhere.

Originally Posted by LandieLad

"Would You Do This For 50p An Hour". The article was in the relation to the £5.00 paid to marshals at the British GP.

The GP, whilst Bernie and everyone else earns millions while serving up generaly poor entertainment, no. Birkett relay, yes, happily. In fact, I don't even need the 50p.

[SuperDuff]

Woolley, I can understand the point you make, but I think you miss my point. If everyone took that line of thought, then yes, I agree - it would be a naive and misguided statement to make. However, the beauty of being human is that we are individuals - what floats your boat (or gets you out of the tent for sign on) may not be the same thing that floats mine. While I don't mind a lack of breaks, I don't have a great love of overrunning meetings where I have a 4 hour drive home on the Sunday - you might be different.

I believe that there is a level of managing expectations (the club/circuits managing the marshals, and the marshals managing their own). I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that if you (I mean the plural "you" to confirm) like doing a particular race/circuit, you do your bit of research on the race/track etc (e.g. looking on here for past reports, talking to others when you're out and looking at timetables). Knowing what you have learnt, surely then you make a decision. Obviously the more meetings you do, the more first hand experience you have, and that will trump the other stuff (probably).

[Shelagh]

We gave up doing the British GP years ago for a variety of reasons but one of them was that the cost of hiring a caravan for the weekend was getting silly and would have been around the £200 mark (10 years ago - add your own inflation charge).

These days we are more selective about the meetings we do and so we don't do as many as we used to. This is not just based on travelling time/costs but also on type of racing and probable content (ie numbers). I'm afraid this is why we haven't done any BARC meetings for a few years now (but we do try to do one BTCC meeting a year if it is convenient).

We still get around the circuits within reasonable distance from home, so Curborough has rocketed up the charts for "most attended" in recent years!

And, of course, Silverstone - who needs "the Stig" when you have "PieLady "

[Steven Humphrey]

I only did 16 days last year & will probably do roughly the same this year (did between 25-30 previous 2 years). The main reason for this is that I now work some weekends so have to juggle work & family life with marshalling. Yes, things have got a lot tougher financially (especially as my job of the last 2 years pays a lot less than the previous one) but I don't travel too far (Silverstone & Snetterton are 50 miles away, Rockingham even closer) so a weekend's marshalling will cost me about £50, with food & fuel. Camping overnight can save me £20 so I do that a bit more now.

I've never been put off by lack of breaks or long days. I work 12 hour shifts & quite often only get a quick break so 9 hours marshalling is a breeze. And at the end of the day, I love marshalling so to have to do it for half hour longer or through my lunch is no real hardship. I would hate to see our sport suffer due to lack of numbers. Do we really want to go the way of rapid response vehicles & lighting systems and no marshals on the bank? Maybe the clubs do need to rethink things & take us into consideration (the circuits I visit are certainly doing more to retain marshals these days) but we also need to be supportive of the clubs through these difficult times.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by SuperDuff

If everyone took that line of thought, then yes, I agree - it would be a naive and misguided statement to make. However, the beauty of being human is that we are individuals - what floats your boat (or gets you out of the tent for sign on) may not be the same thing that floats mine.

I agree totally with the second part of that, and no problem with 'I'm going here rather than there'. But I never want to hear 'if you don't like it, don't come'. There are issues at the venue I'm chief at, and I'm trying to fight our corner. I know some don't want to be there, and I consider that a failure which needs to be corrected. I don't, however, worry if it's because they're somewhere else.

[Stephen Green]

Originally Posted by MacGWC

Oooops!

Sorry, correct address is of course www.marshals.co.uk; missed one of my r's again!

I have edited George's original post to reflect the correct link to the BMMC

[SuperDuff]

I think that we will have to agree to disagree on some parts as meanings are lost in translation over text.

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Woolley

And where would we be if everyone took that advice? I'm sorry to go on about Donington, but I made exactly that decision several years ago because of their timetabling.

Woolley -you are going on with out of date information and it's disappointing because it puts new marshals off. It is not the same situation as 'back in the day' - and I'd challenge you to visit this year and then make a considered statement (good or bad!)

Now, I would suggest wherever people are marshalling that they check the event timetable for two things - are the gaps between races realistic and is the finish time acceptable. Last year a club (I can't remember who) were scheduling races starting at 6:30pm on a Sunday or Bank Holiday Monday - I chose not to go to those events.

If Donington has a later curfew, it is the club running the day that makes the decision to use it or not.

Personally, I don't mind a later finish on a Saturday as I'll usually be staying over and it's no big deal. For a Sunday, I'll expect to be on my way home at 6pm. Anything later and I'd be considering cancelling.

[AngusFangus]

As this is my first season training to be a Marshal, I regularly visit this site. Gained some very handy hints - especially with "Marshals Leg", which I found most amusing......lets just hope I am able to score 9.5 from the judges the day I take my first tumble.

There have been a few things I've read that have made me think "oh my god, I've wanted to do this for years and am now thinking...what have i done"?
This thread in particular made me gulp big style.

But one is not going to let it put me off and being accustomed to working long hours in rather conflicting situations I'm sure everything will be grand. Afterall, I guess we do it for the love of the sport, just like my other volunteering role.

Do the extra large Tena pads last 9 hours?

I have worked within the Third Sector for many years and directly with the management of volunteers. People have to remember that volunteers give their time to good cause because it is something they have a passion or genuine interest in. Trust me, managing volunteers is a hard job because they are not receiving money for the hours they put in and where one person is happy with how things are done, it may not suit someone else.

I guess the easy answer is......if you don't like it don't do it, but surely in a dangerous sport breaks should not be taken lighthearted.

Like I said, i'm doing this because I absolutely love motorsport (bit strange for a non driver, I do have a bike licence), but I do get a tad cheesed off with the big wigs raking in their millions who then have volunteers onboard - yes i am a fan of F1 but not a certain individual.

i've put down my availability for: Britcar, 750, MSVR-F2, AMOC, HSCC, Blancpain, Classic, Bentley, BTCC & Walter Hayes.........at present I am 5ft small and reckon after all that standing may end up even shorter......or my legs will simply have fallen off

Still looking forward to starting the season and will now depart to perfect the Flamingo stance to combat Marshals Leg

[SuperDuff]

Look forward to meeting you - you have put your name down for many of the events we're doing this year!

[Middle_BBG]

We spent several hours last night poring over various availability forms we've been sent and we will be doing about the same number of meetings as before, albeit with reduced travelling.

I expect late finishes - by it's very nature motor racing is unpredictable, so I plan accordingly. I know that when I go to Donington I won't get back much before 11pm, but that's my choice. When I go to Croft, I know I won't be back much before 1am so I take the Monday off - again, my choice.

Unfortunately there are again a number of clashing events and I'm sure there will be a number of poorly supported events but, especially in this economic climate, I expect that. I cannot and do not expect every meeting I attend to either run to time, be fully supported or to have perfect weather but I know this - what I do expect is a sincere thank you from drivers and organisers - that makes up for a lot.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by deadsquirrel

Woolley -you are going on with out of date information and it's disappointing because it puts new marshals off. It is not the same situation as 'back in the day' - and I'd challenge you to visit this year and then make a considered statement (good or bad!)

I accept that, and it's not an intention to put others off - I always tell people to judge it when they've tried it and not to go by what others say. The odd thread regarding finish times does crop up, of course, but then the people who are going are probably the people who don't mind. My reason for singling out this circuit is because it demonstrated the folly of the 'If you don't like it, don't do it' approach since I - and others - took that advice and then were castigated for not supporting our colleagues.

I am considering a day this year with the ELMS visiting (won't risk the whole week-end!) and maybe a club day since 750MC have a more limited selection of venues.

[NotLordPercy]

I'm being serious for a change. I will support clubs that I like working with . If the officials of some clubs make it apparent that they appreciate and value your attendance, I will travel some distance to help. And if you can be pretty sure of plenty of races and cars, that helps with the decision.
There remain a couple of circuits that I would dream of attending due to their method of working , long days and distances.
We are volunteers at the end of the (long) day and have the option of where we go each weekend. I will continue to travel to meetings where I know I will be welcomed , where I can work with trusted and valued colleagues and where I can see lots of competitive cars racing.
There are clubs for whom I would forego a lunch break or work a bit late to help out if the circumstances arose. We know of some organisers who would take you for granted in those cases....those will begin to find their marshals dwindling over the next few seasons.
And as you get older ,you become a bit more choosy as leisure time is valuable.

Gosh, was that all me........?

[The STIG]

Originally Posted by Shelagh

And, of course, Silverstone - who needs "the Stig" when you have "PieLady "

Oi!!

I don't know if this is relevent - but this year's Autosport International Interviews included this from the 750 Motor Club...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC5aTyeHVtk

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by AngusFangus

There have been a few things I've read that have made me think "oh my god, I've wanted to do this for years and am now thinking...what have i done"?
This thread in particular made me gulp big style.

But one is not going to let it put me off and being accustomed to working long hours in rather conflicting situations I'm sure everything will be grand. Afterall, I guess we do it for the love of the sport, just like my other volunteering role.

Marshals love to whinge! By and large, for any role/club/event/circuit/etc... you'll find people who love it and people who hate it. As I just posted in the other thread, my advice would be to not read too much into what others say and give it a go and make up your own mind - but trust us on the sunscreen*

* if you don't get the reference, see http://www.anysonglyrics.com/lyrics/...everybodys.htm

[Eljay]

I only started Marshalling last August and for various reasons only volunteer for my nearest circuit Brands Hatch. I tried to attend as many varied events as I could to find out

1. Did I enjoy life on post as much as I enjoyed life in the stands
and
2. Which events I enjoyed "working" at

Lunchbreaks were scheduled at about 50% of the 10 days I volunteered at. Overall I decided endurance racing isn't my thing, preferring the shorter format races with lots of 5 or 10 minute slots between each session to grab a bite of sandwich and refill the coffee cup.

Anyway, the worst day on post is still better than the best day in the office!

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Eljay

Anyway, the worst day on post is still better than the best day in the office!

Beautifully put.

[MotorBreath]

Originally Posted by Eljay

Anyway, the worst day on post is still better than the best day in the office!

I couldn't have put it better myself.
I personally can't wait until season's start