[Rules] Trulli: "The end of qualifying", tyres and fuel conservation, and in-season testing..

[Chatters]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91312

I think Jarno is making an extremely good point. The rule changes have certainly spiced up the racing but there are always downsides to every change, and one of those is the fact that from Q1 onwards all the teams are in conservation mode. What would I change?

Firstly I'd bring back refueling. Yes, there is an aspect of danger involved, but in the end Formula 1 is one of the safest forms of motorsport at present, and there is no shortage of fire marshals in and around a racetrack on a weekend. We have seen many times what happens when a car takes off with a fuel hose attached, and in my opinion the ensuing drama hasn't been any worse then what we saw at Hungaroring last year, where no fuel at all was involved in the pitlane calamities. If refueling is allowed again we wouldn't see cars tootling around 8-10 seconds off the pace for half the race, and then having to turn the engine down for the other half so they actually have enough fuel to make it to the end. From the start of every race all the drivers are trying to play catch up with the fuel usage and it has cost some drivers a chance at winning races (see Rosberg at China).

Secondly, I'd give the teams more tyres. As far as costs are concerned, Formula 1 is a multi-million dollar a year business so 3 or even 4 extra sets of tyres per car are not going to cause a large blowout in costs over the year. Give the teams enough rubber to not be cautious when it comes to Qualifying runs. Part of this I know comes down to the tyre itself, with the softer compound of the Pirelli only being good for usually 1 flying lap before fading away, so re-engineer the compounds to give them just a little bit more life. Pirelli developed them to be super-degrading, so surely it wouldn't be a stretch to the resources to make them just-a-little-bit-durable.

I also bring this article to your attention: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91253

Finally, an FIA President talking sense! I think this is absolutely the right call. New drivers are not getting a real chance to acquaint themselves with a Formula 1 car these days and it has claimed the career of a couple of half decent drivers, like Grosjean and to a lesser extent Bruno Senna. I think limited, every-team-attending testing at a few venues throughout the year is a definite must, something I alluded to in a thread before the season began.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Some interesting points.

I think refuelling is a no no. We're going round in circles (no pun intended) with this issue. I think the Pirelli tyres give us enough as far as differing speeds go. I do fully appreciate that you'd like to see the cars pound round more often, but it just opens up the possibilities of more 'overtaking through a pit stop', which we really don't want essentially.

I totally agree that there should be some more tyres allocated. It's all well and good cost saving, and they've taken some big strides to do try and do something about it, but I think the teams just need a little more. This would prevent cars from taking it easy and saving tyres.

And as far as testing goes, how about joining them up and having a days worth of testing, 3/4 times a year? Have the morning/noon as a rookie morning, and afternoon using test drivers only (perhaps?) for developing the cars. Could do this on the Monday after a GP weekend.

Selby

[broadrun96]

The qualifying tire saving is something Steve Matchett has harped on Speed's roundtables after every race this season. I agree with him that teams need at least one extra set of tires and I actually think Pirelli should bring a couple more tires per event. I think the best thing might be to have 5 sets available for Fri and qualifying, 3 prime and 2 options and have to surrender all but one set of the primes. Then for race day they get 2 primes and 2 options to go along with the 1 leftover.

Yes we may see some drivers have to be smoother and conserve their tires to make 5 sets last but tires are a consumable on the car as are brakes and fuel. But that may be why I am MUCH more an endurance fan than F1, everything that happens inside the track should determine the race win and championships. If the driver can't make his equipment last but is blindingly fast he should not EVER win, it's the same as teams building a crazy powerful engine that only last for one race. Yes they may win early but eventually they will run out of engines. How many engines did Jim Clark or any of the early F1 drivers go through in a season? I know I've read stories about teams rolling the car into the garage cleaning it up a bit and running it back out the next race, sometimes doing that for the whole season. To me that is a much greater technical achievement than building disposable cars and powertrains.

[Pingguest]

I don't think the new Pirelli tyres are making an effective end to qualifying in Formula 1. Qualifying ceased to exist in 2003, when the post-qualifying parc fermé was introduced. Since then, drivers are mandated to qualify with exactly the same specifications as they start the race with. Apart from the fuel load, the races starts on Saturday 2:00 pm.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Yes we may see some drivers have to be smoother and conserve their tires to make 5 sets last but tires are a consumable on the car as are brakes and fuel.

As Martin Brundle and David Coulthard pointed out correctly, the Pirelli tyres wear out by mileage and driving style has very, very little influence.

[luke g28]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

How many engines did Jim Clark or any of the early F1 drivers go through in a season? I know I've read stories about teams rolling the car into the garage cleaning it up a bit and running it back out the next race, sometimes doing that for the whole season. To me that is a much greater technical achievement than building disposable cars and powertrains.

But now the cars evolve far more over the course of one season then they ever have before. Hell look at the difference between Mclarens last winter test and Melbourne.

If you have the best car you cannot just stand still as the other teams will overtake. Engines aside, a significant percentage of the car is replaced from one week to the next not just with new parts but with improved parts.

Ultimately the technological competition and rate of progress is far higher than it was in the past.

[mattt]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

The qualifying tire saving is something Steve Matchett has harped on Speed's roundtables after every race this season. I agree with him that teams need at least one extra set of tires and I actually think Pirelli should bring a couple more tires per event. I think the best thing might be to have 5 sets available for Fri and qualifying, 3 prime and 2 options and have to surrender all but one set of the primes. Then for race day they get 2 primes and 2 options to go along with the 1 leftover.
...

Don't they currently have 3 sets of each as they enter qualifying.

yep they do

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/ru...ulations/8680/

[stripedcat]

Definitely a no no to refuelling. Apart from the safety aspect(I accept it is a lot safer now), it does make racing mundane. Plus I do think that tyre management is a skill which the drivers have to know for F1.

Perhaps have a multiple(4 or so) tyre compound choice available for races would bring more variety.

The elephant in the room in F1 is the "dirty air" problem. It is still around even with DRS. DRS is a really a sort of sticking plaster solution for F1. Until the designers get around to the solving the "dirty air" problem we are always going to get this problem.

[Marbot]

Bring back refuelling and you'll have predictable fuel and/or tyre stops again because the level of fuel in the tank will become more important than the wear rate of the tyres. We've seen it all before.

Quite honestly, I think I can live with a bit of strategy in qualifying if it means that a faster car has to come through some slower cars to maybe win the race.

[chillibowl]

Classic! i love that its Trulli with the problem buts thats another story...

i like the fact that teams must make a choice and that it is a choice about making sacrifices and conserving equipment. this is reminiscent of days long gone where scarcity and attrition were major concerns.

if a Q3 capable driver wants to save a set of tires for the race then they need to make sure they approach Q1 & 2 accordingly. the team must plan on saving a set and the driver must deliver the qualifying times in 3 different sessions in order to make this option even possible. this only places more responsibility on the drivers.

in all honesty though this may just still be a feature of a new season, new rules, and new tire manu. in a few races, and certainly by next year, every Q3 team will have figured out how to save an extra set of softs for the race and then...well no one will have really saved anything.

testing, i see no reason to change the testing rules.

JT says its its been a total failure since 2009 but from where im sitting (in front of a TV) we have seen a level of competition which has been as fierce as ever. if this is a failure i would love to see his definition of success.

how many rookies have been really caught out by the lack of testing? Grosjean got the squeeze at Renault, Senna maybe was never fast enough, rookies who found their way to small teams who probably wouldn't have many test days for them anyways? but we have Koby, di Resta, Petrov, Buemi, Alguersauri, Maldonado, Perez so the future is bright despite the lack of testing.

[Gingers4Justice]

Why's Trulli talking about the end of qualifying as if it is a bad thing?

In almost every other racing series in the world, or in fact ever, qualifying has been a non-event. It's not important, because motor racing is about - well - racing.

If the qualifying is insignificant then you have a good formula. So long as the fast cars are generally near the front and the slow cars generally torwards the rear end of the grid, then it's fair.

[MagnetON]

Fuel: Specify a minimum starting fuel load and the minimum car weight at the end is taken with the fuel pumped out.
Tyres: Extra set of each for qually only, teams must return one set of each at the end of qually. Let all cars start on whatever tyres they want.
DRS: Let 'em use it at any point in the lap they want.

[djinvicta]

Why change tyres?? Fill them with fuel, take the wings off and one set of tyres per race. Trulli may win again?

[GolddustMini]

For those in the Uk is Jarno Trulli the Jason Plato of the F1 world? it seems he spends alot of time moaning!

[Jimmy Magnusson]

It doesn't have do be that complicated. Two compouds - one that gets you to the end even if you rag it, and a softer that will if you know how to use them. No rule that you have to use both types or anything. If ya need to stop, ya need to stop. Nowadays we seem to spend more time in the pits and driving slowly than actually racing.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

As Martin Brundle and David Coulthard pointed out correctly, the Pirelli tyres wear out by mileage and driving style has very, very little influence.

That's not how i took what MB said. To me. he said that some drivers are better than others at conserving their tyres, Jenson being one of them, but eventually, no matter how good a driver is at saving his tyres, the tyres will wear out.

Christian Horner has said he expects Mark Webber to do better now he's started to understand the tyres, so i think that driving style plays a major part!

[Andy77]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

It doesn't have do be that complicated. Two compouds - one that gets you to the end even if you rag it, and a softer that will if you know how to use them. No rule that you have to use both types or anything. If ya need to stop, ya need to stop. Nowadays we seem to spend more time in the pits and driving slowly than actually racing.

I'd like to extend this a little to tire choice. because at the moment, you have to have tires of the same sort on the car so no intermediates on the rear and slicks on front end or other mix ups are allowed. It should be up to the driver/teams which tire sort or which combination of tires they race on for a result

[safc_fan89]

I don't see what is wrong with using a bit of strategy in qualifying. If you give the drivers extra tyres, then you lose the contrast in the race where you have some drivers on newer tyres than others at various parts of the race.

If Webber hadn't had a set of fresh hards for his final stint, he might not have passed Alonso. Therefore we would have lost out on some action. I'm sure there were other examples of this throughout the race.

I would much rather have drivers only doing one lap in Q3 if it prolongs the interest in the race. Which it has, so I really don't think this is an issue. The issue is that Trulli has taken to moaning about everything, presumably so we remember he is still in the sport...

As for interpretation of the Brundle comment, you just have to compare Webber and Vettel to see how the driver can make a difference.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Originally Posted by safc_fan89

As for interpretation of the Brundle comment, you just have to compare Webber and Vettel to see how the driver can make a difference.

That's a really good point.

Selby

[Knowlesy]

Trulli is talking sense.

Don't agree with your idea of bringing back refuelling Chatters I am afraid. The refuelling era was a dark, dark time.

[Marbot]

Teams look set to reject in-season testing. And with good reason IMO.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91347

[ECW Dan Selby]

Keith's idea on F1 Fanatic is a perfect solution imo. Or at least a good balance:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/05/12/bring-testing/

Non-Championship races!

Selby

[ECW Dan Selby]

Aaand this again:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91349

Luca open to the idea of a breakaway series. I can see 2009 repeating itself, somehow.

Selby

[Marbot]

New York merchant bank joins News corp.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/169180/...rp_f1_bid.html

Interestingly (or not), Luca also gave his interview to CNN.

It may be that you are right, Dan.

This also made me laugh:

"We have gone too far with artificial elements. It's like, if I push footballers to wear tennis shoes in the rain. To have so many pitstops - listen, I want to see competition, I want to see cars on the track. I don't want to see competition in the pits," he explained.

Back in 2005 he also moaned that the tyres were also playing too much of a part in the races.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Honestly, I can see it happening all over again. In fact, it could be worse/more realistic this time.

Ferrari are indirectly a part of News Corp etc, who i'm guessing would be lobbying for "purer" rules/anti-2013 rules. It'd simply add more meat to Ferrari's demands, which is quite a scary thing.

What will be difficult for Ferrari is the fact that the rest of the teams seem to be anti-Murdoch etc, and seem relatively pro-2013, so to speak.

I must say, as much as it was politics and negative etc, I did enjoy the prospect of seeing some beefy F1 cars (perhaps with varied engines etc) going round the world using some of the forgotten tracks, as we potentially had with this breakaway series.

But it all just seems fantasy and more seems to do with leverage.

Selby