2014 grid?

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

If McLaren are thinking of jettisoning Button - and I don't think they are - Räikkönen is the only plausible candidate. Pérez/Magnussen would be a dangerously inexperienced pairing, and McLaren haven't employed a rookie for a long old while.

2014 will be Sergio Perez's fourth full season of Formula One and his second at McLaren, Lewis Hamilton was World Champion in his second full season, Vettel in his fourth. I wouldn't have called any one of them 'dangerously inexperienced'.

If McLaren had to choose between [what for them] were an expensive and recalcitrant Raikkonen and Alonso or Jenson Button... then they'd stick with what they have... otherwise...

[BSchneiderFan]

There's experience and there's experience. Fighting for the title, no matter how lon you've been in F1, is different from running around in the midfield.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Vettel won his first world title as a crash kid. He then proceeded to amaze everyone apart from the haters (which did include me then, and still does to an extent today) by producing the 2011 walkover, which, Newey or not, actually proved that he had clearly matured a lot, and has to be one of the formidable racers of this generation.

I am still in doubt about the Hulk going to Ferrari. That rumour has really been going on since 2010, when Ferrari discovered that Felipe Massa wasn't his former self. Unless they are desperate for a constructors title, which with 2014 being such an unknown may or may not be anywhere near what they could do, then I still think that the theory of them keeping Massa for at least 1 more season to allow Raffaele Marciello to get to grips with GP2/FR3.5 is more likely than them signing the Hulk. Ferrari will want a driver with big pockets and enough pace to score good points whilst not upset Alonso. The Hulk has small pockets and will upset Alonso. The only hope of them signing him is if Alonso goes.

Alonso will not go to McLaren. They were the team that 'betrayed' him in 2007, and, despite JB saying things, I doubt he'll leave. If he does, I think they'll swap with Kimi at Lotus. And McLaren are almost certain to keep Perez because of two things. 1) His fighting spirit - fine tune that and we could have a lethal GP racer and 2) They signed him up to give the youngster a chance to run in potential title-winning material. They haven't done that this season, and with McLaren being the pacesetter in 2014 being as likely a scenario as any, then giving Perez a chance is almost their duty.

As for McLaren's protégé Kevin Magnussen, he's either going to Marussia or nowhere. A top team won't want to help a fellow top team without some SERIOUS cash (or some tactical genius), and McLaren won't spend that much on an unknown in F1. Marussia seems to be a good place to learn. Whilst they seemed to have a good reputation of getting someone to look not as good as Timo Glock and then leave F1, 2012 changed that when Charles Pic actually beat Glock on occasion and was a big player for Sauber's vacated seat, before he ended up with Caterham. Jules Bianchi, despite what he's saying, is quite obviously going to be in Sauber's "reserve" list, and he brings cash. With Gutierrez looking likely to leave, and the Hulk looking pretty good for Lotus, there's surely space for Bianchi in one of the midfield teams. Adrian Sutil's future is yet undecided...

Kimi's future is the most exciting. As normal, he doesn't show anything, but he's not in Red Bull for next season, nor is he in a Marussia. I suppose only time can tell, but right now some rumours are more well supported than others.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by p-matt

Frijns of course!! Nasr, Calado and probably Bird as well. Rossi on his day is awesome, but there have been far too many off days from him over the last few years.

The problem with Nasr is that he's independently managed and has no real links with an F1 team, despite him being very highly rated. However, he is yet to win a GP2 race, but if he doesn't get near F1 soon I'm sure he'll have an awesome career in sports cars, probably Stateside, after his impressive Grand-Am showings.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by davyboy

While we're still in 'silly' form, what about this ? McLaren may be viewing Button as no better than Perez and given the latter has his feet under the table now, they could throw a chance at somebody new - Kevin Magnussen ?

I think on balance it must be clear to them that Button is certainly no better than Perez. Only Button's canniness and greater experience has given him any edge at times.

It's all very well Jenson spouting off about contracts and how he could be 'free' this and that but McLaren may well be of a mind to tell him, if he want to leave to go ahead as there's no shortage of decent drivers about.

Let's be honest other than the odd race last year and that epic Canada win in 2011, when was the last time Button looked remotely like a consistent top line driver?

[Bononi]

I think Mclaren's current form has a lot to do with the situation, but yes, Button is a shadow of what he used to be. I don't know what to think about Perez but I would expect more of him even with a bad car like McLaren, but it's still better than Sauber.

Regarding the so-called vacant seat at Ferrari, Massa said in local TV shows that if he can't get a seat in a top team, he will retire, and I think it's the better route for him.

So much has been said about Kimi, and I am excited with the possibilities, but being realistic the chances for RBR and Ferrari are far from happening IMO. But I wait to be surprised, that would be wonderful.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Regarding the so-called vacant seat at Ferrari, Massa said in local TV shows that if he can't get a seat in a top team, he will retire, and I think it's the better route for him.

I'm pretty sure Ferrari will parachute Massa into a GT car if he wants to carry on competing - that's one thing you can say for Ferrari, they do seem stick by their drivers post F1 (or at least - the ones that haven't ****ed them off at some point ). It's a smart move for a driver to end their F1 career at Ferrari - Fisi pulled a blinder getting the drive there and then retiring and Salo hasn't done badly out of it either.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I think on balance it must be clear to them that Button is certainly no better than Perez. Only Button's canniness and greater experience has given him any edge at times.

It's all very well Jenson spouting off about contracts and how he could be 'free' this and that but McLaren may well be of a mind to tell him, if he want to leave to go ahead as there's no shortage of decent drivers about.

Let's be honest other than the odd race last year and that epic Canada win in 2011, when was the last time Button looked remotely like a consistent top line driver?

Early '09, the entire second half of 2011. He is a master of changing conditions, but has this thing, normally around mid-season, where he suddenly drops off the pace, and after a few races, he's suddenly right up there. A bit weird to me.

[bella]

yer'onour, back when he first signed for sauber, i objected on the grounds that his gp2 campaigns were marred by inconsistency and he wasn't going to be ready for f1 until he had sorted that out. here we are in his third? and he still isn't able to deliver at every round, for whatever reason.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by bella

yer'onour, back when he first signed for sauber, i objected on the grounds that his gp2 campaigns were marred by inconsistency and he wasn't going to be ready for f1 until he had sorted that out. here we are in his third? and he still isn't able to deliver at every round, for whatever reason.

I assume you're talking about Checo...

[bella]

yeah sorry just noticed you weren't! though it's funny that him and button sound the same when you boil it down to the essentials a bit

note to self: don't multitask

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by bella

yeah sorry just noticed you weren't! though it's funny that him and button sound the same when you boil it down to the essentials a bit

note to self: don't multitask

That was why McLaren said that they had a great driver line-up for development. Both drivers have similar styles, and results too!

[bella]

interestingly, when they've got a bit of a crap car and they'd really benefit from that development bonus of having two similar drivers it doesn't seem to have happened.

that could be for one of two reasons: one - it actually makes no difference at all and they still want different cars. or two - it's a REALLY crap car and they've done an epic job getting any pace out of it at all...

[SpikerJack]

http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/302...no-i-risultati

It's in italian. It says more ore less "massa will still be the first choice for ferrari if results will come". I'm speechless. What should massa do to get fired from ferrari???!!! 3-8 in qualifying against fernando, 67 points vs 151, lot of cars destroyed etc.. etc.. isn't that enough????!!

[m355y]

I don't think Button's a shadow of anything. He's still driving well. If anything over his three and a half seasons at McLaren he's surprised me in a positive way, yes he's lacked that final tenth or two in qualifying to Hamilton but over three seasons together he matched him, even scoring more points in total. He's had some bad races along the way but so has Lewis. For every Canada 2012 when Lewis lapped him is a Spa 2012 when the positions were reversed and Jenson was the man to get the result....now he's dealing with a difficult car and he's keeping his head own, racing beautifully and maximising his points finishes.

He is so much more complete a driver now. Back in the Honda and even Brawn days the argument was constantly levelled at him that he was a fairweather performer, quick when the car was right but useless when it wasn't. And that was perfectly true then, but not now. He's improved his all round game.

As for Perez, firstly I'd argue that last seasons Sauber actually WAS a better car than this seasons McLaren, it deserved a race win. But also that Perez being slightly behind but taking the fight to Button says 1. That he's doing a good job without tearing up trees, and 2. That Jenson is doing pretty well shading someone who was brought in as a proper up and coming talent.

If anything the problem with this lineup is that they're too similar, both feisty and impressive racers who are great a preserving their tyres and making offbeat strategies work for them, but also both lacking a tenth or two in outright, white knuckle pace.

You'd probably say that about a 2012-2013 spec Kimi too though.

[chillibowl]

m555y, totally agree with your assessment of Button. and with Mclaren going back to Honda engines (all be it a very different engines the last time Honda was in f1) i think Button history with Honda would be an asset. i hope they resign him for a few more years at least.

but im not sure im as sold on Perez yet. for example if they get rid of Button and pair Perez with a rookie that will be the first time that i can think of that Mclaren does not have a race winner in its lineup...scary thought of the day would be that they run the risk of following Williams into obscurity.

[m355y]

I agree, not totally sold on Perez either. I think Sauber produced a pretty fantastic car last season which allowed two fairly unheralded drivers to impress more than anyone expected, but I find it almost impossible to assess how good either Perez or Kobayashi are/were. Have always suspected that with someone like I dunno, Kimi or even Hulkenberg in that 2012 Sauber, it would have won two or three races.

I don't think Perez has done badly this season but McLaren need to keep Button. Losing Jenson and partnering Perez with a rookie would be a potential disaster. Jenson is their link to when they were winning and he's still diving just as well.

[p-matt]

My sense is that McLaren still rate Button extremely highly, especially for the technical side, but they feel Checo hasn't really performed this year.

In true silly season fashion, German media are linking Nasr to Toro Rosso due to AFDC nt being as stellar as last year

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by p-matt

In true silly season fashion, German media are linking Nasr to Toro Rosso due to AFDC nt being as stellar as last year

Do they realise that this is the same Felipe Nasr who said no to Helmut Marko and the RBR Juniors to be managed by Steve Robertson?

[Bononi]

Looks like Button will stay at Mclaren.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

for example if they get rid of Button and pair Perez with a rookie that will be the first time that i can think of that Mclaren does not have a race winner in its lineup...scary thought of the day would be that they run the risk of following Williams into obscurity.

The last time McLaren did not have a race winner on its books was in 1995 when Hakkinen, Blundell and Magnussen drove (notwithstanding the two races that Mansell drove in).

[BSchneiderFan]

So it was actually 1994.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Do they realise that this is the same Felipe Nasr who said no to Helmut Marko and the RBR Juniors to be managed by Steve Robertson?

Marko may well find it in himself to reconsider Nasr!

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by wnut

Marko may well find it in himself to reconsider Nasr!

I guess for the Helmut, ANYONE BUT WEBBER

[bella]

sorry, but if he was to go back and talk to drivers who rejected him then surely his first stop would be frijns?