IMSA Race TUSC Round 7: 6 Hours of the Glen

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

The biggest concern I have is whether the officials will be calling "avoidable contact" penalties at the Glen.

Detroit was fun, but pretty much a NASCAR race, with all the leaders passing by hipcheck---not the way racing should be, IMO.

Six hours of "Eat my fender" and all the P2s will be in the garages.

I sort of agree with you, but if you go back to sebring,long beach,and laguna.it was yacaman and the Morgan oak that was chewing the defusers and fenders off the 90 and the 10,while the 90 was racing dirty IMO but still it's was the P2 on the attack.

I'll put the dvr to record the race for the first hours,I don't have my hopes up for this race and expect lots of commercials and cautions.it will be cool to see what kind of speed the dps will carry with the updated aero and hp,but the walls are close in some sections and with that many cars and from what I have seen in previous grand am races there,it's going to be a crash fest.i just hope no one takes out the gtlm or gtd leaders.

[Birddog07]

I'm predicting a full race time (2h 45m) run behind the safety car, and 2 1/2 hours of the broadcast time being commercials, advertising, or pointless bits no one cares about (basically advertising in disguise)

Probably won't even be able to watch though.

Oh yes, how could I forget? The DP cars will still outclass the P2s.

[Maelochs]

Yes I think it was Garcia in the SDR #90 and Yacaman in the Oak (her got quite a reputation for wrecking Telmex cars in Rolex before this) who were really pushing hard early----most think there was a some blocking on Garcia's part and some determined aggression from Yacaman (most who knew him form Rolex were probably as surprised as I he kept the car whole.)

Then Brundle got in and surprised almost everyone with his foolish attempt to force past Westbrook in the Corkscrew---though Westbrook was driving pretty defensively too.

Thing is Garcia and Brundle did get penalized for their more egregious maneuvers---as it should be.

At Detroit I think it was Ricky Taylor who crashed into the #90 to get the lead, then his brother Jordan got into it with Barbosa in the #5 AXR on the last lap and no one seemed to care.

[Accident]

I don't remember seeing anything "dirty" from #90 at Laguna Seca.. Yeah it ran the OAK car wide at turn 5 which was unnecessary, but running cars off is nothing new for Laguna Seca, it happens a few times every year and they got their penalty for it. There was no moving in the braking zones or late reactionary blocks that I remember seeing. Given that they knew/felt it was a P2 track and that their only chance was to keep the OAK car behind, I would have expected anyone in a DP car to do the same.

Kinda makes me wonder if the roles had been reversed, would people be calling the OAK car dirty or complimenting the stout defense put up to keep the DP behind it?

Garcia is in the #3 Corvette now, his second year not in a DP. Valiante is in with Westy in the #90.

Also for the comment a few above I fail to see how contact "belongs to sprint cars" when sprint cars are open wheel cars and contact results in a flip or broken front end 90% of the time.

I think at the Glen we will see a DP take it again. The first part of the track up to the chicane should favor the DP pretty heavily and with their straight line advantage overtakes into the chicane should be pretty easy. Would think the P2 would be faster on the second half of the track but at that point they would already be behind the DP so the DP can just keep it defensive and hold them there.

Mainly looking forward to the GTE battle, it should be the real show.

[Purist]

I think he was referring to Sprint Cup, not actual sprint cars.

I don't think a P2 is capable of putting up the same level of defense. The DPs are bigger, and weigh 300lb more. You do the math. We saw the damage to the #42, and how well the #5 soaked up the impact, not to mention, what a number even an indirect whack did to the #70 in that same incident.

Some of what I saw from the #90 is definitely more than what I would call a "stout defense". Also, that move by the #2 HPD was the only straight-up pass I saw a P2 stick and hold on a DP at Laguna Seca.

I think the two types of cars will be fairly close on lap times at Watkins Glen, but yes, that run from Turn 1 to the Inner Loop will be a killer for the P2s, especially if the DPs can run Turn 2 flat-out. It's not just long; most of it is uphill, too.

[Maelochs]

Thanks for correcting me on the drivers---Valiante was indeed in the 90.

My point was and is, both cars were penalized for avoidable contact at Laguna. The one major block Valiante threw (while Yacaman was in the car, early in the first stint) was called, though not until later, and Brundle was penalized for his over-optimistic (read: crazy, foolish) maneuver.

I worry that if enough contact is ignored, more will be attempted, that's all. If the frist pass at Detroit had been called, maybe the second incident wouldn't have happened---bt TUSC is balancing audience appeal against racing rules, I understand. It is Not an easy call to make.

And yes, realistically DPs will win at Watkins Glen. And probably everywhere else on the schedule. I knew that before Daytona. I still hope for a fair fight, though. Who wins only matters if the racing is fair.

[BullMan]

At Laguna both drivers of the 90 were blocking the OAK car until they crashed. It was egregious and I can't believe race control let them get away with that stuff.

[Purist]

Well, I think the P2s also stand a reasonable chance of winning at Mosport. Remember the duel between Jon Field and the de Ferran Acura in the opening laps of the 2009 race?

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Purist

Well, I think the P2s also stand a reasonable chance of winning at Mosport. Remember the duel between Jon Field and the de Ferran Acura in the opening laps of the 2009 race?

Both were much faster cars....

[Purist]

I know, but think of it this way. The Intersport Lola B06/10 AER with those insane air restrictors represents the DP, and the de Ferran Acura ARX-02a is the P2 in the scenario. So, you have brute power against better aero and a more advanced chassis. Also, while Field was even on weight, or at most, 40kg lighter, the P2s are 300lb (136kg) lighter than the DPs.

The balance issue is another reason why I wish we could see the Prototypes at VIR this year. Like Watkins Glen, it has a real mix of things, and I think some of the lead-ins to some of the fastest sections would actually favor the P2s even more.

Well, I just want a reasonably close race at Watkins Glen, with as little contact as possible, and minimal abuse of the paved run-offs. We'll just have to see.

[Rcz]

I still think a P2 could win, if they can just get to that chicane. Because from there, the advantage will swing the other way, the boot should give the p2 cars a boost there.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by joeb

You can find the IMSA info HERE. And holy smokes, there ave been 103 competition bulletins already this year in IMSA!

New AoP table:
http://www.imsa.com/sites/default/fi...0%2314-102.pdf

That GTLM table always makes me scratch my head because everybody gets breaks, just doesn't make sense. It seems like you could get to equality with many fewer moves....I can't even look at the GTD table....

edit: in case you want to see the FIA table with GTE bop look HERE

Viper is the USCC equivalent of WEC Aston Martin. It is beyond ridiculous how many breaks that car has.

Btw those are bulletins for all IMSA series so the total count isn't technically that high.

[Ginaro Zukovsky]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Viper is the USCC equivalent of WEC Aston Martin. It is beyond ridiculous how many breaks that car has.

Btw those are bulletins for all IMSA series so the total count isn't technically that high.

Well the Viper started the year off much heavier than it had been in Le Mans last year, and seems to have gone up and down all year in terms of weight: 1280, 1250, 1265 and back down to the 1250 similar to Le Mans last year (1255).

[TF110]

Yeah, im confused by that statement. You sure its not bmw youre talking about Chiana? Every other car bar the Ferrari is brand new. Vette and Ferrari have D-I, better fuel economy. Porsche is 1225kg+ same size restrictors as the just updated Viper size. Viper was 1265kg and the 458 is 1230kg. Bmw has 29.8x2 restrictors, roof level rear wing and 1245kg. Viper is 29.6x2, -25mm rear wing and 1250kg. A comparable car is the Vette. Big engine fr, 1245kg, 29.2x2, -25mm rear wing.

[Purist]

Aren't the Porsche 991s direct-injected as well?

It seems odd to me that the BMW would be heavier than the Ferrari.

The spec sheets I've found are also kind of interesting in what they show:
Ferrari 458 GT2
Power- 465hp
Torque- 384ft-lb
BMW Z4 GTE
Power- 480hp
Torque- 354ft-lb

It's not really what I would have expected, with the BMW having a lower-revving V8, while the Ferrari just wails by comparison.

Any idea what the settings were on the Risi Ferrari when it won at VIR last year?

[Articus]

No direct injection in the 991's. They are still running the 997 engine. They didn't want to develop the road going 991 engine for race because the new GT engine regulations were not set. GT convergence called off but engines rules and sonic restrictors just might be the same for the next few years so Porsche are probably working on it.

It's ironic that they're isn't a single car in the GTE field but the Ferrari that is running an engine by the books.

Porsche holding onto the 997 motor. Corvette don't want to waste money to debore/stroke the 6.2 Liter in the stingray so they got a waiver ("hey everyone else has one") for the old C6R engine but added direct injection because the engine block had been ported that way anyway. The Z4 with the M3 V8... Viper and the 50 liter V10...Aston...laugh:. With regards to rules, the class is in shambles. Fortunately the racing trumps all.

The BMW probably gets more weight because it has more aero than the other cars. Also in terms of performance balancing, the RLL team has performed a lot better than Risi this year...It's imsa attempt to reign the cars in a bit.

[TF110]

There are no engine size rules. Viper's engine is fine. The size limit was put in place when Vette dropped from gt1. That was a long time ago so theyre just fine. Even the 458 ran a width that was too wide when introduced. So it too had something that was out of the rules.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by TF110

There are no engine size rules. Viper's engine is fine. The size limit was put in place when Vette dropped from gt1. That was a long time ago so theyre just fine. Even the 458 ran a width that was too wide when introduced. So it too had something that was out of the rules.

Normally aspirated engines
5.4.1 The displacement is 5500 cc maximum

[Deleted]

Them having illegal engine never bothered me as much as the fact that their base restrictor sizes are not corresponding with the base restrictor table...
http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....4&postcount=39

... which almost makes it bigger waiver than the actual capacity break

[joeb]

I didn't notice this earlier, but it appears Qualifying now has streaming coverage online. In the IMSA email today it said:

Qualifying - TUDOR United SportsCar Championship qualifying will be streamed live on IMSA.com beginning at 3:55 p.m. ET.

Looks like a positive move!

[carbon_titanium]

Yes in theory the 5.5 rule is still there, but it seems that SRT can't or don't want to destroke the 8.0 V10, so is better to give a waiver than lose a manufacturer...
After all until early 2013, the engine of a GTE had to be same block of the derivated street car, BMW entered with the Z4 powered by the same s65 of the GT3 Z4, and the rule was changed...
If you ask to me, 458 GT is the only car that didn't reiceve any waiver and bop helps.

[jasonjessica09]

There really is not much to disucss pre race because you can't predict what will happen. GTE is wide open between 10 cars who have a legit chance to win. Plus having the red Dodge Vipers brings a fresh new look to the battle so I hope Fox spends most of their coverage on this class. It's ok we can stand to see a little less of DP cars running around.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by joeb

I didn't notice this earlier, but it appears Qualifying now has streaming coverage online. In the IMSA email today it said:



Looks like a positive move!

Has been since laguna and the replay is usually posted on you tube by the end of the day..

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Normally aspirated engines
5.4.1 The displacement is 5500 cc maximum

Yet raced at LeMans. Its fair to say that rule is lax.

[Purist]

Well, isn't the Viper GTE downsized from the 8.4-litre already? Also, I was thinking that the V8 in the Z4 GT3/GTE originally came out of the M5.