Mount Panorama (the track)

[mtpanorama]

I went to a meeting in town tonight that was held by the chamber of comerce and Bathurst city council. It was to do with the developement of Mount Panorama and the attempts by the local council to secure adequate funding from both the federal and state govs.

The council is after a total of $20 nillion dollars (10 from each gov),to add to the $4mil that they have alraedy put in.
This money would be allocated roughly along the lines of $6mill for Reid, Sullman and McFillamy parks,for upgrading of spectator facilities and a general re do of the area.
$4 millon for Haris park and along pit straight and @.5 mill for acces roads and spectator entry and exit points.
The remaining money would be used to completely flatten the current pit complex and start again. The new complex would include pit garages, accomodation,corporate suites, training rooms and a function centre. The entire pit area would be sealed and carports would also be errected.

The state member said that the nsw gov had noyt gone ahead with the Lemans race at homebush because it could not see the point of spending $8 mil on something that they would have nothing to show for it when it was over, so there maybe some hope yet to getting some money out of them. The federal gov is going to be a whole different ballgame

Bahturst council has an agreement with AVESCO to run the race until 2004 and are working on signing a ten yar deal. That deal will hinge largley on getting funding for the capital works projects outline above.

I have a pettition from council to sign, so if anyone would like a copy just email or PM me and i will post it to you.

[Wrex]

Bring it on Mount, I'll sign it.

Would AVESCO really be that hard to convince to extend the contract. I mean V8's without Bathurst - Not possible.

[RaceTime]

I have to be honest about this - despite my 30 years involvement in motor sport, as a voter if the Fed Govt kicked in any money to the track I for one would be up in arms about it and protesting as loud as I can.

Why?

Why the hell should a track that gets an ELITE commercial category ONCE a year be given money that would be better spent and used on permanent race tracks around the country or for the development of youth racer programs?

V8 Supercars are earning millions from around the country and what are they doing with that money? They certainly are NOT helping future racing drivers in any way at present.

Maybe if they started to put some of that money back into motor SPORT (note the emphasis on the word sport) then I would be supportive - but not until.

Sorry - but elitism should not be encouraged.

[Ray Bell]

Essentially I'm with you, Race Time. The Governments should be doing something for the sport, as they do for other sports, but the demands of AVESCO shouldn't be the principal directing force for that money.

Over what period is this money required? A guarantee of $2m per year be sufficient?

And how can they spend $4m in Harris Park? I simply don't understand their rate of spending...

[mtpanorama]

And how can they spend $4m in Harris Park? I simply don't understand their rate of spending...

Read it all Ray, it says Haris Park and the pit straight, which would include a grandstand

Over what period is this money required? A guarantee of $2m per year be sufficient?

They were saying as long as some of the work is started before nexts years race it will probably be ok.

[philneast]

Money is certianly coming from the V8 circcus back into grass roots motorsport. Ford sponsor Formula Ford and their Kartstars program is fantastic. DJR have started an assocoaition with Azzurro karts.

They do need to use Mt. Panorama more than once a year. Before we got the Grand Prix bikes at Phillip Island there used to be a huge bike meeting at Easter.

Wby not the Amerrican Le Mans series around Mt. Panorama?

[Ray Bell]

Yes, that was posted in another thread, and it would certainly help justify the government expenditure.

Sure, mtpanorama, I knew you said Harris Pk and pit straight, but that is Harris Park.

Do you reckon the 1000 would survive if the ALMS cars were to run there? I don't see they could take over that event if Cochrane pulled AVESCO out ... which wouldn't surprise me once he's got that gov't money...

[RaceTime]

V8 money is certainly NOT coming back into grass root motor sport. Formula Ford have been sponsored by Ford virtually since the categories inception - at present Ford are strangling the category trying to introduce a one make category and this is have a detrimental effect on the category - no on e knows if they are Arthur or Martha at present and no one can plane 2 years down the track - that is not support!

I'm not disputing DJR support some karting venture - but is that all that can be done? That is like the Fed Govt saying they will finance an anti-drugs campaign - here's $100,000 - goodbye!

V8 Supercars are sucking up sponsorship like it is going out of style. They are alienating officials and organisation groups left right and centre by trying to centralise their control over the category.

[Ray Bell]

Worse is that they are pumping up a bubble that could burst around them, and those who are heavily committed to their ways.

In the meantime, they are forcing promoters to look only to satisfying their needs, ignoring the many who want to get on with racing and watch other categories.

RaceTime (shall I also call you Racey?), are you interested in reading some of the Bruce Polain exposures about CAMS and AVESCO? PM if you do...

[MadMick]

G'day Ray

I should appologise to RaceTime for calling him Racey, its a bad habit of mine (shortening names) and I will in future refer to to him as RaceTime and will try to refrain from shortening names

[DAVID PATERSON]

Formula Ford is hardly grass roots motorsport, it's a a lot closer to the top than the bottom. Grass roots motorsport is held at club level, by volunteers for enthusiastic amateurs. Formula Ford has a national championship with semi-professional teams and drivers.

[Crash Test]

This is a figure that utterly freaked me out the other day, but I was told that Formula Ford competitors at a state level have budgets of around $90,000 a year.... I know you could do it a lot cheaper than that, but whoah.....

[RaceTime]

Taken from the Formula Ford Web Site:

A new imported rolling chassis, including gearbox, will cost between $60,000 and $70,000, tax and freight paid.

A second hand rolling chassis (without engine) varies considerably, from approx. $7,500 for an older model to around $30,000 for a recent car.

You can build your own engine, from new or second hand components, available from nominated Ford dealers or wrecking yard. The engine regulations are tightly controlled and your engine must comply. If you do all the work an engine will cost around $6,000.

Many competitors choose to buy or lease engines from experienced engine builders, most of whom provide technical support at major meetings. You can expect to pay approximately $10,000 to $13,000, with second hand engines available for around $7,000. Most National level competitors choose to have their engines rebuilt every three to four meetings, costing around $2,000, depending on the amount of work required.

The category in Australia competes on the AVON ACB-10 racing tyre, available through outlets in each State. The National agent is Gordon Leven Motorsport Tyres in Sydney. The tyres are manufactured in England and the cost of a set of tyres for 2001 is $1,150. A supply and fitting service is available at every National and State Series meeting.

http://www.formulaford.com.au/generalinformation.htm

[MadMick]

G'day RaceTime

Hmmm , is there any class of motor racing (except bikes <g>) that you can get into without winning lotto ??.

hehe , my budget at the moment would be somewhere around $ 200 a month

[RaceTime]

It really depends on what you want in racing.

For sedans - HQ's are reasonably cheap, but you still need a well built engine and good tyres. Panels can be easily obtained from shopping centres errr I mean everywhere

Open wheelers - for close, even racing that soon shows the skills of the driver - Formula Vee.

[MadMick]

Originally posted by RaceTime


For sedans - HQ's are reasonably cheap, but you still need a well built engine and good tyres. Panels can be easily obtained from shopping centres errr I mean everywhere

G'day RaceTime

I guess you know I was kidding, like I would ever have enough $$ to do any sort of racing, and at only 1.2m tall probably wouldnt get my CAMS license anyway <g>.

When was the last time you seen a HQ in a shopping centre btw ??, and I thought the HQ series was finished anyway ?

[Ray Bell]

I drove a Holden HQ to a shopping centre not four weeks ago...

My nephew races HQ, my brother the new Falcon/Commodore class that's intended to replace HQs.

[RaceTime]

CAMS think the HQ's are finished - they aren't bothering to look at the size of the entry lists...take last weekends State Race Meeting at Phillip Island: 46 HQ's qualified, 33 Formula Vees, 24 Formula Fords (CAMS favourite category!!!) - they ain't dead yet!

As for an HQ in a shopping centre - this morning - there are 4 in this court alone! (road cars - not race cars) - the owneer of my web host races two of them regularly...

[MadMick]

G'day Ray & RaceTime

Looks like I have been missinformed yet again , and I can honestly say I dont remember the last time I seen a HQ on the road.

Ray, any idea what its worth to enter a car in the new Falcon/Commodore events ??

[Ray Bell]

My brother chose a Foulcan, but you would naturally go Commodore, I guess.

He reckons he spent about $12,000, but he has a workshop and can work deals with engine work and so on, built his own roll cage etc. The suspension and brake stuff is fairly special, brakes especially, and they cost a dollar or two. A lot depends, of course, on how much you pay for the basic car and how much work you can do for yourself. Not sure what tyre life he gets, but I can check some time for you.

[MadMick]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
My brother chose a Foulcan, but you would naturally go Commodore, I guess.

G'day Ray

hehe , I thought you had made a typo for a second, but then realised it WAS spelled correctly .

I will probably never be able to afford anything but tickets to the races, but I could alway's pinch the missus SS and chuck that in a race <g>.

I have a mate who is a mechanic and he does a lot of work on mustangs and also now the Falcon/Commodores so I can ask him about brake and tyre etc prices.

Thanx for the info :-)

[DAVID PATERSON]

Mick, the Falcon/Commodore class that Ray is describing is called Saloon Car Racing. They would have a website, but I don't know the address, try looking for a link at www.cams.com.au

The class is open to 3.8 VN & VP Commodores and 3.9 litre Falcons. They run a control tyre/brake/suspension package and the association would be able to inform you of what to use, where to get it and what to pay. You can buy a car ready to race for about $25,000 or you could build it yourself for about half that price.

If you can only afford $200 a month to go racing, then Saloon Cars aren't for you. HQs maybe, they're much cheaper now that all the heroes have progressed to Saloon Cars. You can buy a car ready to race for about 4 or 5 grand! There's a lot less panel bashing nowadays too, but they don't get invited to the big meetings anymore. Hey, that's OK cos they're a lot dearer than a state/club meeting anyway.

As a guide, I have a Datsun 1600 Historic Touring Car which i run on a budget of $400 a month. You could certainly do it for less, if you stick to local state/club meetings and keep it fairly stock. My 3 golden rules for cheap racing are:-
1. Modified cars cost a lot more to race than standard ones.
2. Big cars cost a lot more than small 4 cylinder cars.
3. Late model cars cost a lot more than 20-30 year old cars.

I hope this helps. I honestly believe you can go racing for $200 a month, just as long as you're not too ambitious. Motor racing is like sex, even if you don't come first, you're still having a great time. I always say that the bloke who finishes last in a race is having 100 times the fun of the bloke standing on the hill wishing he was out there.

[racer69]

isn't the saloon car series basically just the class A from Group E production Car racing in the early 90s, there should be more of it, it was a top class.

[MadMick]

Originally posted by DAVID PATERSON

I hope this helps. I honestly believe you can go racing for $200 a month, just as long as you're not too ambitious. Motor racing is like sex, even if you don't come first, you're still having a great time. I always say that the bloke who finishes last in a race is having 100 times the fun of the bloke standing on the hill wishing he was out there.

G'day David

Thanx for all that info, much appreciated, if I wasnt such an old bugga I would probably give it a shot but I think I left me run too late.

Have to agree with your quotes Re Sex and finishing last , very good .

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by racer69
isn't the saloon car series basically just the class A from Group E production Car racing in the early 90s, there should be more of it, it was a top class.

Not at all.. I mentioned the brakes, they are very special, huge ventilated rotors, nothing like the standard stuff they had to run in Group E. I don't know all the ins and outs of them, but they have worked at achieving inter-marque parity, and this will always lead to costs in some area or other. They have a standardised chip, for instance, so there's another 'control' item that costs.

I agree with David, you can race for not very much, in fact, it could be with the right car that entry fees are your big bugbear. A rear-field Clubman would fit into that category, and sheer bravery and mods that you make yourself at no cost can add up to getting to the mid-field, the achievement of that goal being very satisfying and worthwhile.

In the right class you can run on cast-off tyres others have finished with, parts sourced virtually from the dump... it's true!

If the object is to just get onto the track, you can do it easily.