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Old 17 Feb 2012, 15:57 (Ref:3027142)   #1
Robyn Slater
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Robyn Slater should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Racecar prep. companies. Do you use them?

This is a kind of market research type question.

How many of you use this type of business?
What do you expect from such a company?
Would it include any of the following:
car prep,transport to meetings,storage,raceday support?
How important is the location of the business in relation to your base ?
Do they provide the service you expect and do you feel you get value for money?

Thanks in advance,
Robyn
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Old 20 Feb 2012, 11:28 (Ref:3028327)   #2
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I don't use a race prep company at the moment, but if I did, I would expect:

Pre-race prep
Transport of car to/from circuit.
Race day support
Storage between races

+ Major / minor repairs as an option.

It wouldn't matter to me where the car was, particularly if I was fortunate enough to be able to pay for the service.
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Old 21 Feb 2012, 04:47 (Ref:3028687)   #3
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I don't use a race prep company at the moment, but if I did, I would expect:

Pre-race prep
Transport of car to/from circuit.
Race day support
Storage between races

+ Major / minor repairs as an option.

It wouldn't matter to me where the car was, particularly if I was fortunate enough to be able to pay for the service.
This is basically what I get from my prep bloke, although if I'm only running one car I generally collect it and take it back myself. Sometimes I do the race day stuff myself too.
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Old 21 Feb 2012, 18:15 (Ref:3029028)   #4
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JohnD should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJohnD should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Preparers have their place, but in certain series, I'd ban commercial preparation.
It's an advantage available only to the deep and well-filled pocketed, so in club-style events or any series that has any claim to low cost, I'd say that the owner/driver must present pictures of their build process, or other evidence that they DiY!
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Old 21 Feb 2012, 18:42 (Ref:3029043)   #5
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Preparers have their place, but in certain series, I'd ban commercial preparation.
It's an advantage available only to the deep and well-filled pocketed, so in club-style events or any series that has any claim to low cost, I'd say that the owner/driver must present pictures of their build process, or other evidence that they DiY!
John

I disagree completely. Yes, professional preparation may give a driver an advantage in setup and reliability, but racing has always been that way. As long as cars are legal it's generally driver ability and experience that determines results.
Those that you would ban from professional prep would still gain an advantage by spending their money on fresh tyres and plenty of testing.
Also, would you insist that all competitors use the same tools and facilities?
Would someone who can afford all the setup equipment which can amount to a few thousand quid, be banned from using it because it's not something most competitors could afford?
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Old 21 Feb 2012, 18:51 (Ref:3029045)   #6
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Some people haven't got the time or ability to prepare their own cars, why should they be banned from certain series? There's few enough people racing as it is let's not make it any worse and can we please avoid dragging this into another cheque book racers type thread, we've had them before.
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Old 21 Feb 2012, 18:55 (Ref:3029049)   #7
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Some people haven't got the time or ability to prepare their own cars, why should they be banned from certain series? There's few enough people racing as it is let's not make it any worse and can we please avoid dragging this into another cheque book racers type thread, we've had them before.


Agreed.
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Old 21 Feb 2012, 20:49 (Ref:3029117)   #8
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JohnD should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJohnD should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I'm sorry you feel that way, Tim, esp. when you say "few enough people racing". If only the well off can race, there will be even fewer.

And I'm sorry that Mark seems to think that I am some do-gooder, who says that "all should win and everyone have prizes" like a playschool leader! Racing is racing, it's all about winning, being best. Maybe I didn't express myeslf well, though I did say "some" series and gave the example of avowedly low cost series - EG Locost, Hot Hatch - where the organisers might want to discourage cheque book winners.

As it happens, I know a past Hot Hatch champion, whose car was superlatively well prepared and modified by him and his Dad, alone. I respect that sort of performance far more than, say the winner of an 'arrive-and-drive' series.

And I did say that car preparers have their place in the motorsport hierarchy. No one would expect a professional team to have their drivers double as mechanics (though they did in the old days!). I just want motorpsort to have some cheap, entry-level series where someone can get going and make a mark without spending five figures a year on it.

JOhn
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Old 21 Feb 2012, 21:02 (Ref:3029124)   #9
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Well we have people who have others prepare their cars and most of them are nothing to worry about in racing terms, the ones that are quick are the drivers that can drive or the drivers that can chuck shed loads of money at a car and still do it themselves.
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Old 22 Feb 2012, 08:28 (Ref:3029304)   #10
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Personally speaking,I will only do my own prep,had a few non-finishes because of stupid things that should never have happened.Seen some pretty awful work carried out as well,but what if 'the well healed' have no idea on things mechanical? If they want to pay for a service,thats up to them,and there are quite a few in that bracket!
In reply to Johnd's post,that is the main reason why the 360 MRC was formed,to give a chance to those who wanted to do an enduro at an affordable fee.Dont forget the circuit hire goes up each year though.
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Old 22 Feb 2012, 10:04 (Ref:3029343)   #11
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John, if you were as useless with spanners and engineering as me, then you would be excluded from racing altogether if you couldn't use a preparer at some level!

I sent my car to the one-man-band down the road to lower the rear suspension and he charged me fifty quid. Is that cheque book racing? I physically couldn't do the job on my own, and I have no friends so can't call on any to help.

Back to the OP, I suggest he researches "Best Practice" and "Best Tweaks" for his car before entrusting it to a preparer, so he knows what needs to be done and checks it is done. Also learn the shortcuts, and learn what breaks otherwise he'll pay handsomely for the preparer's mistakes. And finally, a healthy dose of scepticism, there's an awful lot of bull**** around race car preparation! But be as clued up as they are, and it's just an extension of yourself but with talent.
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Old 22 Feb 2012, 10:20 (Ref:3029350)   #12
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Some people do not have the time, expertise or space to do their own prep work, so choose to work to earn the money to pay someone to do it for them.

Some then collect the car on a Friday and race over the weekend and return it to the prep company, others opt for trackside support as well and then just have to worry about getting themselves there, knowing the car will be there, and then don't have to worry about tow cars, trailers, trailer licenses for the younger drivers and so on.

The problem is when you pay someone, time costs accrues quite quickly, so if you have a fixed budget of £ xxx to spend, it either gets spread thinly, or you have to prioritise the things that matter.
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Old 22 Feb 2012, 22:19 (Ref:3029666)   #13
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Thanks for some interesting comments and viewpoints.

Keep em. coming.
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Old 22 Feb 2012, 22:53 (Ref:3029681)   #14
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I sent my car to the one-man-band down the road to lower the rear suspension and he charged me fifty quid.
Like the old charity thing (give a man a fishing rod......) give me fifty quid and as well as do it for you, I'll show you how to lower the suspension!

Each to their own. Just as I'd rather be beaten by someone who DiYs than someone who buys ready-made, I would take less pleasure in beating someone if I had not made the car.

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Old 22 Feb 2012, 23:18 (Ref:3029688)   #15
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Like the old charity thing (give a man a fishing rod......) give me fifty quid and as well as do it for you, I'll show you how to lower the suspension!


John
John, I knew *how* to do it and I actually taught Beardo, but tall as I am even I couldn't reach both sides of a 924 at once. So I had an expert do the work under my beady eye.

And as I get older, the fun of barked knuckles, bruised thumbs and oil in my hair seems to be paling

Most preppers have a separate rate if you help them, about 50% extra
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Old 23 Feb 2012, 12:52 (Ref:3029867)   #16
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It's an advantage available only to the deep and well-filled pocketed,
John
The view should not be guided by the assumption that the preparers are only in it for the cash - many may have turned a love for the sport into a business - even if not a hugely lucrative one. In the HFF paddock for example, the 'preparers' do a huge amount to the series in general, both techie and wider. It is rare in any event that my preper doesnt get at least a dozen callers asking for parts or advice / assistance - rarely do they get an invoice!

Surely a novice that youre about to lap is a lesser risk if his car is well prepared and a part doesnt fall off in front of you.

Yes a big chunk of my budget goes on thie element, but i'm better for it, the race is better for it, your'e safer and what heritage is in my car is perpetuated.

What about driver coaching - do we ban those who have been shown how to do it properly and only allow the gifted? (i'd be OK, youd never guess i'd had a lesson!)
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Old 23 Feb 2012, 18:02 (Ref:3029998)   #17
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Midgetman,
Ah, yes! Broken down by age and, well, age.
I'm beginning to know the feeling, esp. after a day under and over my car.
Stiff? I ought to bottle it and sell it as Viagra!

John
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Old 24 Feb 2012, 06:57 (Ref:3030217)   #18
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Back in the day I had a sponsor or two. I used to do all my own general prep but engines and gearboxes were given to specialists. We almost won the championship one year but my day job got in the way.

These days I neither have the time nor the space to prep my cars. So I have Ken Clarke Motorsport to look after them.


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Old 1 Mar 2012, 13:15 (Ref:3033550)   #19
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I quite enjoy DIY/fettling and usually do all our own stuff. A few seasons ago we were stuck for time coming up to the start of the season, so dropped two engines in to a motorsport prep place for assembly. This guy had just left a bigger outfit to make a go of it on his own, so being self employed myself I was happy to put the business his way. The engines had been stripped for a refresh but were pretty standard BMW engines, nothing specialist. One was pi55ing oil out after a fortnight, the chap looked at it "Gasket failure mate, nothing to do with me". (It was actually leaking from two seperate places) The other was also leaking oil after a month, I didn't bother pursuing it after the response to the first engine leak.

That was my first and only experience. If I did use a race prep place again, it would be somewhere bigger with a reputation to protect so more incentive to look after customers. It would also be somebody with an established reputation for decent customer service to start off with. So in terms of market research/potential new market entrants, it would be a no.
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Old 1 Mar 2012, 13:31 (Ref:3033555)   #20
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I quite enjoy DIY/fettling and usually do all our own stuff. A few seasons ago we were stuck for time coming up to the start of the season, so dropped two engines in to a motorsport prep place for assembly. This guy had just left a bigger outfit to make a go of it on his own, so being self employed myself I was happy to put the business his way. The engines had been stripped for a refresh but were pretty standard BMW engines, nothing specialist. One was pi55ing oil out after a fortnight, the chap looked at it "Gasket failure mate, nothing to do with me". (It was actually leaking from two seperate places) The other was also leaking oil after a month, I didn't bother pursuing it after the response to the first engine leak.

That was my first and only experience. If I did use a race prep place again, it would be somewhere bigger with a reputation to protect so more incentive to look after customers. It would also be somebody with an established reputation for decent customer service to start off with. So in terms of market research/potential new market entrants, it would be a no.
I don't think that the size of the business is necessarily important, it's how well established they are and hoog their reputation is that's important.
(In the example above, had the guy actually 'left' the bigger establishment before he was pushed for example because of shoddy work?)
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Old 1 Mar 2012, 17:21 (Ref:3033631)   #21
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When I did a bit of racing each blue moon, I had to have someone help me because I don't have the knowledge, space or equipment to do a proper job of preparing and setting up a car.
Latterly, I had my cars prepared by URS and I'd go straight back to them if I was racing still. My budget increased significantly of course, but I always had a very well prepared car. Ironically, it was also why I decided to pack it in. It was the only way that I was happy to go racing but when I stood back and dispassionately looked at the effective cost per hour to be in the car, I decided cold-turkey was the sensible option for me. I emphasise "for me" in case anyone gets sensitive.

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Old 7 Mar 2012, 22:31 (Ref:3036707)   #22
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I dont seldom trust such companies, most are all friendly and happy and all smiles. Also I dont find many put the effort in to do a good job, maybe I am just a perfectionist, but I do expect someone if I am paying them good money to deliver what I expect of them, but whats more important to most these days is ££££ rather than satisfaction of the customer.
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