[BTCC] Round One, Thruxton 8-9 May, Races 1,2&3

[Alfisti]

I read that as a very politely put hint my mind has got muddled again!

Maybe there is a career in commentary left in me yet

[antnee]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Has the line really be drawn though? We dont know that a line has been drawn. He has been given a mere 3 point penatly for causing an absoluley awful incident. I dont know how many points he has on his license, but presumably he will not be banned.

Remember that the stewards represent BARC and MSUK - while they may have only given him a fine and points, Lord Gow & TOCA may have come down a lot more heavily on him. Given the bad press an incident like this attracts, I'm sure Gow would have been one of the first to speak to Neate after being released by the medics.

[S griffin]

Great start to the season as ever, so glad to have the BTCC back

My view on the Turkington/Sutton incident, just a small mistake by Colin, which can happen on the first lap. For me it was a racing incident, which stewards these days in motorsport don't seem to think exists anymore.

Great start to the season by Cookie, really on it from the beginning, shame about race 3, but at least he got FL. And great to see Dan Cam up there, what a shame he's only in for the weekend

Consistent weekend by Hill seems him in the lead of the championship. Seems he's got a car to show his true talent this year and what about that drive on slicks in the rain in R3?

Really good to see Rowbo doing well and show everyone he's worthy of that seat. Nice to see Shedden up there in R3 showing he's still a force to be reckoned with after problems in the first two races. And let's not forget he came from the back too. And good to see Plato back up there. After a year out, there's life in the old dog yet

Sutton as ever showing his class and it seems his team mates Moffat and Boardley have improved over the winter.

Great racing all through the day, the R3 wet/dry/wet slicks vs wets the pick of the bunch

Roll on Snetterton in a month's time, hopefully with spectators there

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I believe you are correct. Last year that statement was 100% true.

Given that Shaun Hollamby, Mark Blundell et al are no fools I assume the same applies this year. They couldn't possibly believe his driving and judgement measure up could they?

I believe Shaun's stepped away from the team in some manner to host this new Pitch TV thingy?

[52Paddy]

Originally Posted by Robshillito1990

There will be much more capable drivers out there with budget to take his place.

Absolutely. Motorbase should cut and run and find someone for the next round. Neate isn't the only man with deep pockets looking for a BTCC drive. You would wonder what it takes for someone to be given a race ban considering the repercussions but, as others mentioned, we don't know what the real implications of the accident are in terms of Neate's thin future possibilities (i.e. TOCA/Gow may have their own sanctions on him outside of the race stewards)...and also in relation to his rapport with the team now.

Neate-aside, what a great season this is looking to be.

[mprmke]

Ollie Jackson has posted on another forum, stating that he would expect Neate has some serious bridges to build with members of his team.

[Robshillito1990]

Originally Posted by mprmke

Ollie Jackson has posted on another forum, stating that he would expect Neate has some serious bridges to build with members of his team.

So even motorbase lack the backbone to just do what every single btcc spectator, driver, TV presenter wants them to do and just tell him to get lost. There's a time when morals should come before business and money. Now is one of them.

[bella]

sorry, i think that's a daft post. commercial matters (they need to have someone with the money in hand ready to switch otherwise people lose jobs) are actually important and a fan lead cancellation campaign isn't as big a matter as you think it is.

Originally Posted by mprmke

Ollie Jackson has posted on another forum, stating that he would expect Neate has some serious bridges to build with members of his team.

yeah, even when a driver is saying the car is a barge and you know it's not it's pretty unpleasant. if i was his number one i'd probably be having a deep and meaningful with the boss today.

that said, i think it's really important to remember that a driver saying "i think something broke on the car" when they just lost it and ran out of talent isn't all that uncommon. if you're using that as a campaign tool then it's not really a valid one. similarly telling another driver a tall story - you'll do anything to not make the car ride back awkward when you've just dropped an absolutely massive clanger.

a good person reflects on their mistakes, learns from them and seeks to improve themselves. we haven't seen a lot of that the past season or two.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Robshillito1990

So even motorbase lack the backbone to just do what every single btcc spectator, driver, TV presenter wants them to do and just tell him to get lost. There's a time when morals should come before business and money. Now is one of them.

Its the day after the race, bit early to start criticising the team for what they haven't done? We may all think it but there're weeks to the next event....

[mprmke]

We don't really know what is and isn't being said and done by whom at the moment. It's obviously causing bigger waves than any previous incidents.

Whilst he was very diplomatic, it is obviously serious enough to lead to Ollie Jackson commenting on it on a public forum. From exactly what he said (and previous comments he's made), he suggests that he's always found Neate to be a nice, pleasant guy and he shows much greater pace than his results have ever really shown, but he has an issue with "red mist" and this can lead to him being totally out of control at times. This obviously doesn't bode very well for being on a BTCC grid.

Also, you can tell Tim Harvey and others involved in ITV's coverage have had to bite their tongues at times, but for Tim Harvey to be so damning with his post on Twitter, that's also a pretty big deal.

Even if no further action is taken at this stage (there WILL be strong words at Motorbase at the very least.....), what are the chances of Neate going through another 27 rounds without incident?

[Robshillito1990]

Originally Posted by bella

sorry, i think that's a daft post. commercial matters (they need to have someone with the money in hand ready to switch otherwise people lose jobs) are actually important and a fan lead cancellation campaign isn't as big a matter as you think it is.

Is it not? I think it is especially when them people who pay the team good money to have their company's names on the car are then associated with a driver who clearly has a screw loose

[bella]

Originally Posted by Robshillito1990

Is it not? I think it is especially when them people who pay the team good money to have their company's names on the car are then associated with a driver who clearly has a screw loose

the company owned by the same bloke who owns the car, or the names on the car from neate's own sponsors, ie himself?

lbr, this stuff isn't going any further than btcc fans, and maybe leaks out in motorsport fans as a whole. none of them are thick enough to boycott a brand because they support a bloke who isn't a great driver. it's a commercial thing. if someone turned up at their door with enough cash to pay for the full season i'm sure he'd be out of the door on his arse faster than you can say "gross misconduct".

i'm NOT a neate advocate. i'm just totally against the hysterical nonsense that seems endemic in many areas of fandom.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Robshillito1990

There will be much more capable drivers out there with budget to take his place.

But are there? And if there are, why were they not already in that car?

Bartrum is no mug, he wouldn't have put Neate in that car last year if there were better drivers available with the same budget. I don't know if Neate re-signed before or after the MB buy-out so it may not have been Bartrum this year but whoever it was, the same applies.

[Pdh]

Originally Posted by redshoes

But are there? And if there are, why were they not already in that car?

Bartrum is no mug, he wouldn't have put Neate in that car last year if there were better drivers available with the same budget. I don't know if Neate re-signed before or after the MB buy-out so it may not have been Bartrum this year but whoever it was, the same applies.

People need to get this into there heads MB don’t own Motorbase it’s owned by Pete Osborne. Mb is just the commercial partner on two of the cars.

You do feel sorry for the team because they’ve had a great weekend with leading the drivers championship, manufactures championship and the Jack Sears championship and have been let down and over shadowed by Andy Neates driving again

[thetool]

Originally Posted by redshoes

But are there? And if there are, why were they not already in that car?

Bartrum is no mug, he wouldn't have put Neate in that car last year if there were better drivers available with the same budget. I don't know if Neate re-signed before or after the MB buy-out so it may not have been Bartrum this year but whoever it was, the same applies.

The only way I can see it making sense to put Neate in the car is if it's the only option to field the team at all, which could well be the case the last couple of years. The guy has been around for decades now, in all sorts of machinery, and has shown he is completely unfit to be racing at this, or probably any, level.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by t4tinks

https://www.barc.net/wp-content/uplo...-Round-2-1.pdf

https://www.barc.net/wp-content/uplo...-2-Round-1.pdf

So Neate gets a £2000 fine and 3 penalty points, Turkington gets 3 penalty points, is there a maximum for an offence?

The maximum for that offence is a £2000 fine.

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

they need his pounds

Not convinced they need them, Pete Osborne's no pauper, but they certainly help.

[Csaba]

Don't know how many of you follow TCR championships, but this whole Neate story reminds me of the Borkovic one.
Except Dusan is a decent driver and all of his actions are conscious...

Who have no idea about Borkovic, the guy was racing in ETCC and WTCC between 2013-15, than in TCR International in 2016-17, winning the ETCC title in 2015 and having decent results everywhere. He has huge backing from Nis Oil and the Serbian government (or at least the ruling party) and also has ties to the not so legal underground...
He was always tough on the track but nothing special in touring cars until the 2018 TCR Europe season. He had a fairly good shout at the title, but in Monza he got in a fight with Mikel Azcona and his crew (physical fight), blaming the Spanish team that they threatened his pregnant wife. He was just disqualified from the weekend (ulterior to the seasons end) despite knocking out Attila Tassi's car (his former teammate in 2016) in the last round, saying to the Serbian media that if he did it to me a few rounds before, and I don't have any more chances for the title, he should not have either. He got away without any consequences...

In 2019 he had a hard and frustrating season, and got in a fight again at the Austrian round. This time being disqualified from the championship altogether (no one knew the length of his ban).
Last year he returned and won the TCR Eastern Europe title by winning every race (his competition was mehh) and "by a miracle" he is back in TCR Europe again this year... Already showed a bit of aggression yesterday in the second race, but nothing special on a Borkovic scale.

Money talks in his case too, with a bit of political and underground relations. At least he is a better driver than Neate, but many have asked for his permanent ban from racing since 2018.

[Matt K]

Errr... wrong thread

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Pdh

People need to get this into there heads MB don’t own Motorbase it’s owned by Pete Osborne. Mb is just the commercial partner on two of the cars.

"after the MB buy-out" = after the buy out of Motorbase

I'm fully aware that Mark Blundell did not buy the team. You need to read the context before jumping in.

[52Paddy]

Originally Posted by bella

sorry, i think that's a daft post. commercial matters (they need to have someone with the money in hand ready to switch otherwise people lose jobs) are actually important and a fan lead cancellation campaign isn't as big a matter as you think it is.

a good person reflects on their mistakes, learns from them and seeks to improve themselves. we haven't seen a lot of that the past season or two.

First point: I find it very hard to believe that MB cannot find another driver who is willing to pay decent money for a ride this season. If Neate was just performing poorly pace-wise, I would understand keeping him there for money. But, last season even, he has proved to, not only be off the pace of the top 15, but also a liability in terms of creating incidents. Money aside, sponsors surely can't be happy to be associated with somebody who is regularly a reckless driver. However, perhaps there are no other drivers out there. Perhaps MB really are that dependent on money coming from Neate and have no other choice. If so, you would hope that strong words are said behind closed doors and that his form will improve throughout the rest of the season. Who knows, this might be the straw that breaks the camels back, so to speak.

Second point: Neate has displayed anything but a reflection and subsequent improvement from his mistakes. It's a consistent thing. There have always been (and always will be) talentless pay-drivers on the grid in all forms of motorsport. That's a reality we all accept, I'm sure. But when your place on the grid constantly wrecks others drivers' races and other teams' cars, there needs to be a line. In my opinion Neate has crossed this line and, if by the good will of TOCA and MB, he's allowed to remain competing for the rest of year, he'd better shape up his act before somebody is badly injured.

[touringlegend]

How much is Neate paying for his drive? Perhaps he’s paying over the odds of what anyone else was or is willing to pay and is in effect subsidising Sam Osborne.

[bella]

Originally Posted by 52Paddy

First point: I find it very hard to believe that MB cannot find another driver who is willing to pay decent money for a ride this season.

we're gonna have to agree to disagree about this. i mean, the british gt field is much smaller this year than last and it costs a similarly large amount of money to compete. if people had that much money on standby to pay for a drive they'd be spending it wouldn't they? there's a pretty significant crossover of drivers who have had a go at both, it's a similar market.

far more popular is the lower cost stuff like gt cup, big ginettas, minis, all that.

Originally Posted by 52Paddy

Second point: Neate has displayed anything but a reflection and subsequent improvement from his mistakes.

yeah that's my point. but thanks for mansplaining it i think this particular incident has cemented that, both in our minds and the minds of the stewards. i'm still not convinced whether the negative publicity from being associated with or entertaining a troublemaker of a driver actually exists though. i'm leaning more towards it being the series' job to tell a driver they're no longer welcome rather than a team to drop them. but that's a seriously big move on a scale we don't really see in british motorsport at any level.

did anybody notice that in the autosport piece about turkington admitting he'd dropped the ball it mentions that:

Neate initially reported a suspected sticking throttle

which is yet another different story. the memes write themselves.

[Alfisti]

I bet Unspeakable doesn't know which one is which. Mr Brake and Mr Throttle that is.

Or maybe he hasn't worked out if your size 10 is planted down on a pedal then it kind of sticks down underneath the size 10.

Time to send Mr BSM round to teach him. But instead of an L plate I think he'd need a T plate. T for Twit obviously.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

How much is Neate paying for his drive? Perhaps he’s paying over the odds of what anyone else was or is willing to pay and is in effect subsidising Sam Osborne.

The thing is Motorbase are not the only "serious" team to have signed him Dynamics, WSR and Team Aon ( who certainly didn't need the money). He must be a bloody good salesman or interviews well!

[Pdh]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

The thing is Motorbase are not the only "serious" team to have signed him Dynamics, WSR and Team Aon ( who certainly didn't need the money). He must be a bloody good salesman or interviews well!

Don’t forget he raced for 888 as well