Diesel GT Car

[Aslak Vind]

The R8 V12 TDI will be produced to numbers, and you will see it again. Dont worry

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

The R8 V12 TDI will be produced to numbers, and you will see it again. Dont worry

The basis for that? Audi's representatives at Le Mans seemed to be saying this was highly unlikely........

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by hoppelemine

Thought I'd look at this one, remember I'm not of a particularly technical nature and numbers on paper don't tell the full story.... However...

Road going Porsche GT3 has 415bhp and 300 ft lbs of torque.

BMW 635d has only 290bhp (that's alot for a diesel) but 430 ft lbs of Torque

Sounds like the potential for a competitive engine to me. Look at what Torque does for Audi and Peugeot.

But then a gain approperly built petrol engine can do the same.

My 348 ci, 5.7 L V8 runs 405 RWHP ( about 450 bhp ) and 407 lb ft or RWTQ.

Friend of mine has 383 ci SBC with 585 RWHP ( 660 BHP) and 640 lb ft of RWTQ

Granted the diesels fuel millage might be better then our 4 mpg under race conditions.

My diesel pick up has 6.6 l V8 with 365 bhp and 640 lb ft of Torque. and gets 15-17 mpg. Under a race condition, dont think it would get more then 4-5 mpg either

My 5.7 l in stock condition on the highway would get 30-32 mpg.

Would a diesel provide any real benefit ?

[Nordic]

Maybe, its all give and take, the slower engine speed of a Diesel would help reliabilty I would have thought, but the higher stresses on the transmission could outweigh that.

I think a diesel should show better MPG under racing than a petrol version IMHO.

I guess we will not know until someone puts one on the track, until then its all ********!!

BTW. I dont think Audi will be the first to do that either.

[Justin Moran]

Only if it was Bio-diesel. Dont know what the difference would be otherwise because there is always bio-ethanol for the petrol engines too. So any techie out there explain the mileage differential between the two bio fuels?

[Nordic]

The other thing to consider, in racing terms at least, diesel is a new fuel and is on an upward curve, as more people come on board the progress will be faster I think.

[Aslak Vind]

The Audi R8 V12 TDI will, if raced, be a BTL engine, second generation biodiesel, as the engine is designed for that fuel to be used at Le Mans. Previously, until Le Mans this year the R10 ran on GTL fuel (gas-to-liquid), which is based on natural gas.

BTL (biomass-to-liquid) was introduced at the 2008 Le Mans, although mixed into the GTL fuel. BTL is based on waste biomass and not food sources, such as waste wood. BTL promises a reduction in the amount of CO2 emission by almost 90 per cent compared to traditional diesel.

[Aslak Vind]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

The basis for that? Audi's representatives at Le Mans seemed to be saying this was highly unlikely........

With all due respect, are you sure that you are asking the right people? Those guys would never say anything about these things, trust me

[Justin Moran]

Originally Posted by Nordic

The other thing to consider, in racing terms at least, diesel is a new fuel and is on an upward curve, as more people come on board the progress will be faster I think.

I dont know if its true but someone told me at LeMans that a guy from Audi had said that diesel technology is as far as it can go? I'm willing to be corrected and for that guy to be prooven wrong but...??

[hoppelemine]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

But then a gain approperly built petrol engine can do the same.

My 348 ci, 5.7 L V8 runs 405 RWHP ( about 450 bhp ) and 407 lb ft or RWTQ.

Friend of mine has 383 ci SBC with 585 RWHP ( 660 BHP) and 640 lb ft of RWTQ

Granted the diesels fuel millage might be better then our 4 mpg under race conditions.

My diesel pick up has 6.6 l V8 with 365 bhp and 640 lb ft of Torque. and gets 15-17 mpg. Under a race condition, dont think it would get more then 4-5 mpg either

My 5.7 l in stock condition on the highway would get 30-32 mpg.

Would a diesel provide any real benefit ?

I was never suggesting that diesel would be better or provide any benefit, Remember that manufacturers go racing for one reason. To sell cars. Being successful by racing a diesel vs. a field of petrol cars would surely be a great marketing strategy. I personally couldn't give a monkey's about the marketing stragies of the various manufactures, but if as a result we get greater and more varied and more interesting racing, then I'm all for it.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by C9/89

Only if it was Bio-diesel. Dont know what the difference would be otherwise because there is always bio-ethanol for the petrol engines too. So any techie out there explain the mileage differential between the two bio fuels?

Not sure about the bio junk fuel. Most bio-diesel fuel does not produce enough torque. accelerations is really bad. For a car or small truck it might be ok but a large truck or race car. I think that jury is still out

Bio-Diesel is about 50% the fuel milage and cant accelerate ( torque ) worth anything. In trucks. Cars are very slow off the line too.

ON Street / road going cars. Bio-fuel ( ethonalbased ) provides about 65-70% of the fuel millage of petrol. IF event that good.

Cost of production, is about the same or slightly more do to high government subsidies


The BIGGEST down fall of any bio fuels is the switch of food production to fuel production so food prices skyrocket

[chewymonster]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

But then a gain approperly built petrol engine can do the same.

Granted the diesels fuel millage might be better then our 4 mpg under race conditions.

My diesel pick up has 6.6 l V8 with 365 bhp and 640 lb ft of Torque. and gets 15-17 mpg. Under a race condition, dont think it would get more then 4-5 mpg either

My 5.7 l in stock condition on the highway would get 30-32 mpg.

Would a diesel provide any real benefit ?

Why compare two cars with one being double the weight of the other?

The Audi R10 averaged about 5.6 mpg at Le Mans.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

Why compare two cars with one being double the weight of the other?

The Audi R10 averaged about 5.6 mpg at Le Mans.

Just wondering what the Duramax Deisel would be like if tuned and put into a corvette?

[chewymonster]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Just wondering what the Duramax Deisel would be like if tuned and put into a corvette?

Probably nothing special as the Duramax is probably very heavy. Audi makes 500 horsepower (738 lb-ft of transmission limited torque) out of the 6.0 TDI, while the 6.6 Duramax only manages 365/660. Obviously one (the Duramax) is designed for a pickup while the Audi V12 TDI is for passanger vehicles. The difference is that the V12 TDI makes peak power @ 4,000 RPM while the Duramax tops out @ 3,200 RPM. (the V12 TDI should make up 420 horsepower at that RPM range)

Where did you get the info about biodiesel giving you less power and fuel economy, from what I know it lowers fuel economy very little while having no effect on power. Lack of standards (and uniform quality) is why VW only warranties 5% biodiesel.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

Where did you get the info about biodiesel giving you less power and fuel economy, from what I know it lowers fuel economy very little while having no effect on power. Lack of standards (and uniform quality) is why VW only warranties 5% biodiesel.

I do live in NC were we have many bio fuel distilleries. eh I mean production facilites.

Lots of ppl around here have tried the bio-deisel in their older trucks, only to pump it out and put dino deisel back in.
Now many of the stations that have bio-diesel cant sell too much of it. Only the greenie beanies want and buy the stuff.


Bio -Diesel #3 has certain standards which must be meet inorder to be sold.

[chewymonster]

EPA says 10% lower power and fuel economy for 100% biodiesel. So it shouldn't be a huge problem, I think it wouldn't be impossible for Shell to make biodiesel for racing that improves upon the 10% figure.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/biodiesel.shtml

[AU N EGL]

I have seen those figures as well. But dont think that 10% is close. City of Raleigh has many flex fuel cars. Milage reported is about 18% less, fuel costs are only slightly less but engine maintenance is up quite a bit.

Valves and rings need replacing at 50-60,000 miles. were on petrol there would not be a need.

[chewymonster]

Flex fuel is completely different from biodiesel, E85 can drop fuel economy 25-30%+. That's because it just has less energy per gallon.

[Tom908V12]

Likely a new customer in 2009 for the GT4 class: the former Peugeot RC Cup(known at the 2000 Paris Motorshow as "RC Carreau") !!!