Autosprout Top 50 Drivers 2003: Tom K - 31st - Page 2

**Aysedasi** · 19 Dec 2003, 13:12 (Ref:816045)

But you can't ignore past record either - I know its top 50 of 2003, but the guy has little or nothing to prove. What it does prove though is that if you run averagely well, in a top (ish) open wheeler category, you will almost inevitably overshadow drivers with as much or more talent who don't. I'm not downgrading Wirdheim at all, I suspect there were drivers in the top 29 who deserved their position less.....

Dunlop Corner · 19 Dec 2003, 16:51 (Ref:816227)

I think Tom raced 4 times this year, with 3 wins as results...
Sebring - His car was actually in the hunt, but a co-driver made a mistake in traffic and the car fell back, never to get back to the front.
Le Mans - Won
Spa 1000 kms - Won
Le Mans 1000kms - Won

That's a pretty good record.

Yeah, Tom has been in the best car the last 4 (5 if you beleive the BMW was better than the Toyota) times, however he has won 4 times too. He has had to beat other top drivers in equal cars, and has managed to do that.
This year the lineup of Herbert/Blundell/Brabham was very intimidating, 3 drivers who has done well in Formula 1.
Tom was, a little surprising for me, able to be faster than Herbert, the fastest man on the other Bentley. He was also able to run longer, and that was big for the number 7 car. Dindo is a great sportscar driver and so he was able to easily match Blundell, and Brabham is a slow driver, so no problem for the talented Guy Smith.
The other two drivers did their part, but if the very fast Herbert had been faster than Tom, the whole race would be different!

Nordic · 19 Dec 2003, 17:06 (Ref:816241)

This highlights the gulf that seperates autosport and its many former readers.
There constant blinkered approach to anything other than F! is a disgrace, there is little any real news in it anymore other than press handouts from the teams and gossip.
How TK is ranked behind some of the make weights that are in F1 is beyond an rational thought unless you suscribe to the thought that the mag has sold its sole to Bernie and the hell to the rest.

jhansen · 19 Dec 2003, 17:08 (Ref:816243)

It's also important to remember that the Bentley's had to start at the back in Sebring after the rule infraction was discovered. They had qualified for the provisional front row. Had they not had to start at the back it may have well been different.

**Aysedasi** · 20 Dec 2003, 13:19 (Ref:816763)

Quote:

Originally posted by Nordic
This highlights the gulf that seperates autosport and its many former readers.
There constant blinkered approach to anything other than F! is a disgrace, there is little any real news in it anymore other than press handouts from the teams and gossip.
How TK is ranked behind some of the make weights that are in F1 is beyond an rational thought unless you suscribe to the thought that the mag has sold its sole to Bernie and the hell to the rest.

How right you are! I could have written that myself......

BillandLara · 20 Dec 2003, 14:34 (Ref:816814)

Only just popped in and was shocked to see this posting. Obviously Autosprout has sold its soul for a mess of, whatever. Even allowing for the media concentrating on the F1 boys to the detriment of all other motorsport this is a travesty. (walks off muttering and shaking head!)

**Aysedasi** · 20 Dec 2003, 14:55 (Ref:816828)

I know these things are all subjective. But Kristensen at 31 and:-

Frentzen at 22?

Give me strength....

krt917 · 21 Dec 2003, 19:45 (Ref:817600)

I don't think you should take the order of these things too seriously because it's so difficult to compare across categories now. Thirty or so years ago you could have done it much more easily because people like Siffert, Rodriguez etc. raced in F1 and Sportscars, whilst Andretti did those and raced in the States. It is harder to compare now because of the specialisation.

I'm a big Sportscar fan, but I am willing to admit that Sportscar racing is not as competitive as it once was (though there are signs of improvement). Gone, for the moment at least, are the days when a Sportscar race saw the same quality of opposition and competition as a GP.

Apart from the top guys (and I notice that in the very same issue, Jonathan Noble's top 10 F1 drivers this year puts Kimi ahead of Schuey, thus opposing Autosports own '50 list'), the order doesn't mean too much, apart from relative to other drivers in the same category - and TK did top that. I'd personally have him higher, but I wouldn't want to try and put the top 50 drivers in order - it's too hard!

Speedworx · 21 Dec 2003, 20:33 (Ref:817621)

Yes, the 3 races he did were great. However, he didn't do ALMS, which is where he should really be. Hence his position is rightly down on last year, when he did more.

**GTRMagic** · 21 Dec 2003, 22:03 (Ref:817667)

I dont think HHF should have been in front of him. Most of the F1 guys had ordinary years...

Is Coulthard in front of him?

Duffacus · 21 Dec 2003, 22:38 (Ref:817696)

Yes, placed at 25

**Adam43** · 21 Dec 2003, 23:40 (Ref:817751)

Quote:

Originally posted by hakkiman
Yes, the 3 races he did were great. However, he didn't do ALMS, which is where he should really be. Hence his position is rightly down on last year, when he did more.

I suppose this is the crux of it. He just didn't race much this year - although you do cover a lot of miles in one Le Mans!

Quote:

Originally posted by Aysedasi
I know these things are all subjective. But Kristensen at 31 and:-

Frentzen at 22?

This is a decent point too!

I can see why Kristensen is down the list due ot lack of races, but (without really saying anything bad about HHF - he's a decent driver), I think that that Kristensen should be higher than him.

Duffacus · 21 Dec 2003, 23:43 (Ref:817758)

You got my vote about that!

Jordi · 24 Dec 2003, 16:00 (Ref:820047)

It's telling that Heinz is actually ahead of DC in the list!

Mags · 28 Dec 2003, 18:01 (Ref:821915)

I just found this thread, and you guys are giving me a heck of a complex!! As MEDIA (ducking and running for cover) I can tell you I DO know what I am talking about!! You have to suspend your passions when doing something like rating drivers. Now, having said this, yes indeed there are journalists that do carry certain likes for drivers (NO ONE says a disparaging word about several of MY boys, trust me!!) but on the whole you do have to try to be, well, NICE to them all. It's a struggle, let me tell you. Sometimes I have to reach out and literally make up nice things to say! For Tom to jump in the car and win 3 out of 4 races is astounding. I'm curious; where did Alonso end up? He should be RIGHT up there as well. And so should Truly. They both blew my mind last year. Do you know a friend of mine was at Indy this year and while everyone was slathering over TGF in the pits, he was able to walk right over to Alonso and talk to him for 1/2 hour? He even gave him a tour of the pits!!! Nice to know one of those F1 drivers is actually human. You do have to admit that F1 is the test of the best driving there is! Yet.. Jeff Gordon jumped in the Williams and ran competative laps, so what does that say? I'd KILL to have Jeff in a CHAMP car.. but I digress. And did Alessandro make the list? He's got a ride again next year! I LOVE that man! He jumps in a car and gets back up to qualifying speed in 5 laps! Now to ME, that is a true racer. At the track that almost took his life. I envy you people that get to see him race next year - and he will be on the podium a LOT. Where did TGF end up? He shouldn't even BE on there, but I suppose 6 times WC means he has to be, even if he cheats to do it

**Adam43** · 28 Dec 2003, 19:59 (Ref:821945)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mags
You have to suspend your passions when doing something like rating drivers.

Quote:

Originally posted by Mags
Where did TGF end up? He shouldn't even BE on there, but I suppose 6 times WC means he has to be, even if he cheats to do it

Sorry off topic.

To try an get it back on topic and the thing I came here to say.

Generally I am disapointed that Ortelli missed out on a place in the overall top 50. He came 4th in the sportscar drivers, but missed out on the Top 50 because "he didn't do the Supercup"

Looking at the top ten sportscar drivers. I would have put JJ Lehto up with Herbert. Together for most of the year. I don't think the races that they didn't compete together separtes them much, especially when considering the car.

For what it is worth, my top three sportscar drivers this year would be, Kristensen, Ortelli and Lehto. That is also the team I would put together for Le Mans in an ideal world.

Mags · 28 Dec 2003, 20:18 (Ref:821951)

Doesn't evertbody love Herbert because he is Ex-F1?

I tend to like drivers more that don't drag around a crate of cheese and crackers to every race. JJ is a Brie man! I'd have to put up Luhr/Maassen there, didn't they win every race they entered?? Or just about, unless they were ordered to move over.

**Aysedasi** · 30 Dec 2003, 18:15 (Ref:823734)

I'll go with the Frenchman who has some Pont l'Eveque (Fab will now tell me off for spelling it incorrectly......

).

Herbert is a vastly underrated driver, IMO. But then, as you said earlier, we all have our favourites, and having followed his career from his FF1600 days, and having been there to "witness" his leg-breaking shunt, I guess I'm entitled to have a soft spot for him.

santori · 30 Dec 2003, 21:09 (Ref:823879)

Actually, I was quite pleased to see H2F there. Both he and Nick were, I think, excellent this year and unfairly blamed for a poor chassis. But you're right about the F1-bias.

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