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9 Apr 2018, 16:52 (Ref:3814461) | #301 | ||
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I see things got worse for Hartley as he was given a post race penalty of 30 seconds for a warm up lap infringement, as was Perez. Thus Perez and Hartley were re classified 16th and 17th behind the two Williams.
Nothing to do with their lap 1 contact, as I said this was due to warm up infringements, with both drivers failing to folllow protocol. https://au.eurosport.com/formula-1/h...09/story.shtml |
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9 Apr 2018, 17:18 (Ref:3814468) | #302 | |||
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I can sort of understand that if you are delayed on the grid for the green flag lap and the whole field passes by that you should start from the pit lane; but why not from the back of the grid? But what I cannot for the life of me comprehend is that if just one car passes you and you do not re-take your correct position in the line of cars before a certain line, then you also have to start from the pit lane. In this case, Perez was penalised because he didn't let Hartley get past to retake his "rightful" position, and Hartley was penalised because he should have therefore driven into the pits to start from there. All I can do is just shake my head at the crassness and pettiness of it. And they wonder what is wrong with F1 ! |
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9 Apr 2018, 17:44 (Ref:3814476) | #303 | ||
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Just idiocy. But I'm not surprised. Lunacy seems to be completely rife with the regulations and the application of them these days.
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9 Apr 2018, 19:50 (Ref:3814510) | #304 | ||
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As to why the pitlane vs. back of the field. Where exactly do you go? What if more than one car has issues? Do you have to remember which side you should line up on? What if the other guy lines up incorrectly, do you take his spot, or do you continue to do the wrong thing and line up behind him? It could be a big mess by just letting them figure it out on the fly. Clearly in this incident you had two drivers who didn't know what to do. Just have them start from pit lane with less opportunity for shenanigans and/or something that causes a false start for the entire field? It sounds like the real problem is that Perez was probably being difficult and Hartley didn't know he could regain his position and was afraid to overtake on the formation lap. I am a bit of a Hartley fan, but I put most of the blame on him (which seems to be what they did). Richard |
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9 Apr 2018, 20:26 (Ref:3814516) | #305 | ||
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waiting for a car that takes their formation lap too slowly is kind of unfair to the other cars sitting their waiting no?
over complicated engines and PU usage rules, how much time can these cars sit there idling before they start blowing up? |
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9 Apr 2018, 20:57 (Ref:3814524) | #306 | ||
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9 Apr 2018, 21:33 (Ref:3814537) | #307 | |||
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There is also the issue of different regulations between series that trip people up. That happens everywhere. Top team ran tape over bodywork seams in IMSA race that I think was allowed in WEC, but not IMSA if I remember correctly. Richard |
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9 Apr 2018, 21:58 (Ref:3814541) | #308 | |
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Seems a little harsh toward Hartley. Wouldn't be the first time Perez has been difficult. If he made it hard for Hartley to get past, even though Perez would fully know he should be behknd Hartley, that's on him more than Hartley. Also, Hartley is probably a little more cautious than most f1 drivers, with his sports car experience where keeping the car together is a bigger deal than in f1.
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9 Apr 2018, 21:59 (Ref:3814542) | #309 | |
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Knowing the rules is one of the first things in every driver contract. Not very smart at all not knowing the proper procedures. I’d say lucky for him they haven’t got any pukka third drivers.
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9 Apr 2018, 22:04 (Ref:3814544) | #310 | |
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Does it matter if he knows the rules if Perez wanted to pretend hartley was ocon on the formation lap?
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9 Apr 2018, 22:09 (Ref:3814545) | #311 | |
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If he can’t take his place then he should know to head for the pit lane. What he did wrong meant that even if he somehow had won the race he would have been penalised down to the back. Team management have to be unhappy as it wastes the whole weekend 1000%.
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10 Apr 2018, 00:52 (Ref:3814556) | #312 | ||
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Perez and Grosjean....I try block them out during the races. |
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10 Apr 2018, 02:57 (Ref:3814568) | #313 | |
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Sounds to me like you're doing your usual and speaking out of the lower orifice. I'm betting the isn't a single letter or thought to the rules within any driver's contract. That's what the team works on and the fact they didn't tell him pass Perez and get in proper formation? That's 1000% on them, and they know EXACTLY where their drivers are on track to insane accuracy.
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10 Apr 2018, 03:25 (Ref:3814572) | #314 | |
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Whatever. Responsibility for knowing the rules is a key item in any driver contract I’ve seen. And that is more than a few. You are right though, you have to wonder why the team didn’t tell him to put if he hadn’t regained his correct position. It’s tempting to blame Perez more than 50% but the fact that the FIA didn’t should show you something.
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10 Apr 2018, 09:15 (Ref:3814608) | #315 | ||
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It seems as though only Ays has understood the reason behind my post. It was not about whether a driver knows every sing rule and regulation, nor whether it was the responsibility of the pit-wall crew to advise him on what he should or should not do.
The post was about the arbitrary rules that the FIA have imposed. As I wrote, I can understand the rule if it is applied when a car has only moved off after all the rest of the grid have gone by, but in this case and it is this case that I highlighted, only one car (Perez) had passed. Perez then made it nigh on impossible for Hartley to retake his position before they crossed a certain line around the circuit. I fail to see why Hartley should be punished for the behaviour of another competitor. Why should Hartley have to start from the pits when Perez wouldn't let him pass? Next thing we know, the FIA will probably introduce a new rule that if you get bogged down off the line at the start of the race and you get passed that you then have to complete a drive through as a penalty. As I said originally, it is crass and petty. |
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10 Apr 2018, 10:28 (Ref:3814623) | #316 | |
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No, it isn't. It isn't really that obtuse, either - the rule is there to prevent drivers deliberately allowing another driver to advance on the grid, or take advantage of a "hole" on the grid.
In a 2 car per team competition, it's ridiculously important that the "number 1" driver in a team isn't offered a deliberate advantage by their own team-mate or a driver with, for example, the same engine supplier. I think it's entirely fair to penalise both drivers in terms of race time in this case, but I disagree with the penalty points they gave to Hartley - however we haven't got the transcript of the proceedings so we'll never know, or it's highly unlikely we'll ever know, why they were given out and Perez didn't get any. |
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10 Apr 2018, 10:29 (Ref:3814624) | #317 | |
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I agree Checo, should have let him back past, he was making Hartley being unfairly punished. Complete dipsticks to punish Hartley for that
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10 Apr 2018, 11:02 (Ref:3814630) | #318 | ||
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But, Greem, none of that applied in this case. And what's happened to common sense?
And instead of Hartley retaking his position in the snake by some arbitrary point, he went to his correct position on the grid in readiness for the start of the race. Rules and regulations are supposed to be in place to stop competitors taking unfair advantage of situations, as you state above, but that clearly wasn't the case here. Here there were two different teams with two different power sources. If common sense was allowed to prevail then only Perez should have been given a metaphorical slap for being stupid for not letting Hartley get by. And that should have been the end of it, in my simple mind. Instead, they've made a mountain out of a molehill. |
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10 Apr 2018, 11:55 (Ref:3814638) | #319 | ||
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I completely understand why you think what you think, and I agree to some extent, but the rule exists and they can't ignore it or they'll have the baying masses accusing them of favouritism. Or bias. Or something. |
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10 Apr 2018, 14:27 (Ref:3814674) | #320 | |||
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truthfully i didnt even know this Perez/Hartley thing was a rule but when i read about it my thoughts did go towards this being a common sense/catch all sort of rule that would prevent people from being daft without the need to be specific. i guess if one thing bothers me though is why was it only applied post race (or at least i think it was post race...if it wasnt please ignore this next bit). seems like something that should have been sorted more quickly like a false start and/or penalized at the same time they looked at their first lap incident. for me its not a stretch to think that their formation lap issues were a contributing factor for their first lap incident no? so connect the two incidents. anyways, its as if (or leaves the impression imo) the stewards didnt realize it was an infraction until post race and needed someone to tell them it was before handing down the penalty. perhaps knowing the rules should be part of the stewards' contracts! |
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10 Apr 2018, 18:37 (Ref:3814713) | #321 | |||||||
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I have to wonder if there was a "tit for tat" thing going on. Such as FI complained to race control about the collision (which resulted in a time penalty for Hartley), so then TR said... fine and then complained about Perez overtaking Hartley at the start? Richard |
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10 Apr 2018, 19:04 (Ref:3814719) | #322 | ||
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that sounds about right!
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10 Apr 2018, 20:50 (Ref:3814740) | #323 | ||
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That seems like a crazy rule! Here's a completely ridiculous hypothetical scenario...
Last race of the season, Driver 1 needs to win the race to win the championship. Driver 1 is on pole, with championship rival Driver 2 in second. Formation lap start: Driver 2 takes off like a scalded cat overtakes Driver 1 and leaves Driver 1 no opportunity to overtake. Driver 2 takes up P2 on the grid, followed by Driver 1 and the rest of the field. If I understand this rule correctly, Driver 1 has to start from pit lane or gets a 10 second stop/go or 30 second time penalty, effectively taking them out of the championship? |
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10 Apr 2018, 21:02 (Ref:3814742) | #324 | ||
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That isn’t what happened on Sunday. |
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11 Apr 2018, 10:34 (Ref:3814841) | #325 | ||
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I see a lot of comments that Perez was being difficult, but was he really?
If the "Hartley didn't know the rules" part is true, did he even attempt to take his position back? Or was he just happy to follow Perez knowing that it would make no difference to taking his exact spot on the grid as Perez would take the other lane anyhow - as in: there would be no car in the way, and he himself would be in nobody's way either. |
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