Champcar-Brands RUINED!

[Jay]

I have to say that doesn't really look any different than any of the tracks Cart races on here. Frankly, I have no idea what the fuss is about. They've really increased the amount of fencing at Cart's road/street races in the last few years in the wake of the Krosnoff incident. I know at Mid-Ohio, as an example, you'll be shooting through fence just about everywhere unless you can get access to a marshalls hole. Same goes for most of the street races (at least Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver).

There's usually a 10 foot (or more) fence close to the track that can catch cars and car parts and a second 6-10 foot fence a few feet back to keep the spectators back. That said, there's usually ample marshall's holes for teh photographers and marshall's to share. But, if you don't have a photo pass you'll likely be shooting through at least one layer of fencing everywhere...2 in most.

[Lee Janotta]

Mexico City:
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/car...ex-jc-0213.jpg

Where's the fence, Jay?

Road America:
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/car...el-mk-0421.jpg

Hmm, funny, I don't see an all-encompassing fence here either.

Portland:
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/car...or-cm-0528.jpg

Oh, _there_ it is! Funny, it doesn't look nearly as imposing as the one at Brands, does it?

Mid-Ohio:
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/car...mo-tm-0424.jpg

Wow! That must be that new-fangled invisible fencing that's standing between the marshalls and the track, right Jay? 'cause all I can see on the inside of that corner is a little Armco!

[Jay]

Come to Toronto, Montreal or Mid-Ohio and I'll gladly show you the two layers of fencing I discussed. You can even see it in the background of the Mid-Ohio and Portland photos. I've never been to Road America, Portland or Mexico City I can't really say abotu there(I assume you have been to them). The areas above where you don't see fence are all for marshalls and accredited photographers only. I assure you the public has to stay behind at least one layer, likely two layers of fencing.

Granted circuits such as Mosports don't have as much fence, but they don't have to deal with the crowds or the high speeds, crashes and safety standards in Champ car or F1 in Montreal's case.

[Lee Janotta]

Toronto's a _street_ circuit.

Jay, the whole point is that the fencing is EVERYWHERE at Brands now, not just where the spectators are!

[PaulSands]

surely there isn't fencing on the inside of Graham Hill is there???

[Rob29]

Granted the fences may be necessary in the interest of safety. The point is if you are then going to attract the public you have to build huge stands so they can see over the fences.
Anyone who has bought a ticket and finds they can go where they expected should certainly sue for their money back.I have seen no publicity about this problem or where the stands,if any,will be.Currently there is just one open 'bleecher' (at Paddock bend)

[PaulSands]

I suppose I shouldnt whine too much as this is very much an added bonus on the back of my Octagon 4 Wheel Season Pass

[Jay]

Originally posted by Rob29
The point is if you are then going to attract the public you have to build huge stands so they can see over the fences.

You mean they don't have them! I was making the assumption that the grandstands would be raised so that most fans could see over the fencing in most places (as most Cart and F1 circuits have). Are they not even errecting temprorary stands?

[Rob29]

That was the point I was making- we do not know.The website is selling grandstand tickets,but no indication as to where they will be. Temporary ones used to be erected for F1.But since the only permanent covered one was demolished about 3 yrs ago,there has been just one with room for perhaps 500 people.
There was certainly just grass a week ago for a EuroBOSS test seen on TV the other day.

[Alfaholic]

They were putting tempoary grandstands up along the start/finish straight last weekend during the 750MC meeting.

[Snapper Baz]

The reason for moaning is that Brands is/was one of a few UK circuits were you could find somewhere to get perfect pictures with no obstructions in the way ie: Surtees, inside of druids or if you were tall enough on a chair-the outside at Paddock Bend(as a spectator)...I'm lucky enough to have a pass and I am still unhappy! Im my mind there is already enough debris fencing at Brands though the extra fencing might help in some small way. It's been ok for F1 testing in the past etc so why the panic now-it's nothing more than overkill! Lets face it-you would expect it on a tempory road course ...but this!!!

[blackfalcon]

The whole of the finish straight is being covered with stands according to a chap i was talking to there at the weekend. The bank has been broutht back too opposite the pits.

[ss_collins]

dunno baz I was there on sunday too as a speccie and paddock wanderer with chezza and I didn't find that fencing spoiled my enjoyment of the racing at all.

Yes they are building temporary stands etc all the way along the finish section. the place is gonna be rammed (hopefully!) with people. Lokk forward to dodging the traffic on the A20 by sneaking in a pint at the kentagon.

[Alfaholic]

As a spectator I have to agree with Sam that the fencing does nothing to detract from the racing. However I no longer take a camera unless I'm at Donnington where there are superb oppertunities on the infield, the grand prix track at Silverstone (Club or Becketts exit), or Snetterton where they haven't heard of catch fencing.

[brandsman]

Baz, it is I, Woody. What are these damn American's doing to our circuit? From what I've seen in photographs,the point about POW camps is about right. It seems to me they should just line the circuit with concrete walls, call it a temporary street circuit, and have done with it (there is talk that Chris Pook sees that as the future of CART. No more Elkhart Lake or Mid-ohio for instance).

Now, can you, or anyone else, clear up something for me. I've heard a couple of things about a grandstand being pulled down. Are we talking about the covered stand directly across from the pits (next to the pedestrian tunnel entrance)?

Cheers,
Woody

[Rob29]

Originally posted by brandsman


Now, can you, or anyone else, clear up something for me. I've heard a couple of things about a grandstand being pulled down. Are we talking about the covered stand directly across from the pits (next to the pedestrian tunnel entrance)?

Cheers,
Woody

Yes,that's the one.Built in 1955,the only place to go on a wet day.Bar at the back and toilets underneath. Raised to the ground a few years back without explanation.
Also I don't think you should blame the Americans for this fiasco,but the circuit owners.Still if the pits straight does end up looking like Shoreline Drive it may not be that bad.
Even the title'London Champcar Trophy' is not calculated to bring in a crowd,and also misleading.Its not even in London!

[macdaddy]

No reason not to go to the race! On Belle Isle I had to look through a fence to see a bigger fence! Didn't bother me much, at least I felt safe. I could still see, hear and smell the cars just fine. After a few lagers, I hardly noticed the fencing at all. (But then again, after a few lagers, I'd have been unlikely to notice a thunderstorm!)

[Jay]

If you're going to start blaming the Americans, would you prefer they not race at Brands at all? Hey, if a circuit is going to hold events like Cart or potentially F1 in the future changes wil be necessary. If the people at the circuit would prefer to not have these events in favour of preserving certain aspects, then I completely understand and respect that and you should probably petition Cart and/or Octagon to bugger off. That said, if you actually do want cars like Champ cars or F1 cars on that circuit, changes will obviously be necessary.

[jklein6419]

THATS A GREAT POINT JAY. THE RACE WILL BE FAST EXITING OPEN WHEEL RACING. SOMETHING THAT BRANDS HAS NOT HAD IN A WHILE. CHANGES NEED TO BE MADE TO ACOMADATE THESE SLICK SCREAMING CHAMPCARS OR F1 CARS

[Lee Janotta]

So-called safety consultants are paid to find problems, not to say everything's peachy. The conflict of interests should be apparent to a 5 year-old.

[brandsman]

Perhaps I need to explain myself. You see, I am an American (actually half American, half English) and the 'damn American' crack was made tongue in cheek. Perhaps a smiley might have helped, sorry. Of course having said that Octagon is owned by Interpublic which is an American company, and I'm personally not in favor of some of the changes, maybe it's just sentimentality. I worked at the circuit for several years.

Again, sorry for the confusion . And thanks Rob29 for confirming my fears about the stand

[Snapper Baz]

"Worked" Brandsman? I thought you was always playing-and how come the girls liked going with you round the circuit! Actually I cant wait to see the "Indy cars" again! I was there (its my local) at Brands for the last visit and Silverstone...Danny "Onthegas" was superb! They also had a Ford Escort race that some entered in...didn't Dick Simon roll one or am I dreaming? ...I also got Roger Penske's autograph and he looked at me with a "how do you know who I am look"! I had all the place sussed out for photos ( a friend in Colorado wanted some) and now it's all gone to pot...I'll have to have a good scout round this Monday to see if there is ANYWHERE!

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by Snapper Baz
"Worked" Brandsman? I thought you was always playing-and how come the girls liked going with you round the circuit! Actually I cant wait to see the "Indy cars" again! I was there (its my local) at Brands for the last visit and Silverstone...Danny "Onthegas" was superb! They also had a Ford Escort race that some entered in...didn't Dick Simon roll one or am I dreaming? ...I also got Roger Penske's autograph and he looked at me with a "how do you know who I am look"! I had all the place sussed out for photos ( a friend in Colorado wanted some) and now it's all gone to pot...I'll have to have a good scout round this Monday to see if there is ANYWHERE!

Lucky sod!

I'll be calling into Speed Channel tonight to try and force them to show that race. Any of my fellow North Americans want to join me?

[brandsman]

Yeah Baz, you're probably right about the working, but I have to be careful, you never know whose reading. Brands might want their money back if they thought I was only playing . And now you tell me about the girls , (although it's hardly surprising,is it ) I can't believe they've torn down the grandstand. I'm sure it was there last August when I was at the circuit. How could I have missed that (or not missed it, as the case may be)?

[DavidStHubbins]

The best place to watch races at Brands for me was always on the inside of Paddock Hill Bend under the bridge almost so you get to see them coming down Paddock and into the tight hairpin at the top and then round down the otherside to that lefthander that they castrated...