Where is the quality?

[spider]

This years line-up is underwhelming me thus far. It reminds me of an arrive 'n' drive karting event at my local circuit - the top 10 drivers race in owner/driver events every week and are quick as they are PROPER drivers, the 20 others are just there for the ride. Waffled, but I hope you get my point - Tracy, Bourdais, Bruno are the O/D's, whilst the Lavin's, Mazzacane's are the arrive 'n' drivers - the top 10 is still good quality, but the competition isn't as intense as when you have 30 PROPER racers, like CART did 3 years ago. Although I'm sure Tracy was ecstatic to win the crown last year, to me tho it isn't anywhere near as impressive as winning the title 3 years ago...just my opinion...

Getting RHR back out there is paramount, as is trying to entice a Tony Stewart, or Hornish Jnr - respected across the world and a good benchmark. There needs more quality back out there, more AMERICAN drivers too!

Why isn't Champ Car, or are they, approaching the BIIIIG European teams from F3000, F3 etc and enticing them over - it is an International Championship and a step-up, whilst being cheaper than F1. Imagine if Minardi left F1 to become A MAJOR Champ Car team, fielding 3 quality drivers, saving them untold money...just imagine...

[BSchneiderFan]

I agree with your point about Minardi, and other big single-seater teams. I suppose the problem for people like Arden, Coloni and Super Nova is that they'd have to relocate to the USA, and also that they'd have to switch from European-focused sponsors to primarily American ones. Be nice to see someone like David Sears or Christian Horner have a crack at Champ Cars, though.

[spider]

I think an attractive and well presented European TV deal could help, plus it's an opportunity for existing sponsors to branch out to the lucrative American Markets...?

If OWRS had a few European rounds then it's the best of both worlds!

[Kicking-back]

CART didn't have a field of 30 quality drivers three years ago - I think you must be dreaming that.

Anyway, this year's line-up will be better quality than last when it all comes together.

[rustyfan]

Originally posted by spider
Getting RHR back out there is paramount, as is trying to entice a Tony Stewart, or Hornish Jnr - respected across the world and a good benchmark. There needs more quality back out there, more AMERICAN drivers too!

Why would Tony Stewart leave NASCAR when the money and fanbase there is enormous?

Also, I think it would take some serious (impossible?) convincing to get Hornish Jr. to leave Penske.

Imagine if Minardi left F1 to become A MAJOR Champ Car team, fielding 3 quality drivers, saving them untold money...just imagine...

Being the crappiest team in Formula 1 still means more than being a top team in Champ Cars, considering the money in circulation in F-1 and the number of people watching it on TV and so on.











Still, no harm in dreaming I guess

[spider]

Well, I was over-exaggerating a little, well a lot, but the point is CC is a VERY high profile series and a VERY respected series, so it'd be a shame if only the top 10 was filled with talent, the rest being well...average at best.

I mean, here's a controversial point that I'm sure I'll get jumped on, but how can we all say drivers like (and I don't solely mean him) Dominguez be labelled some1 who's now a real genuine front-runner when you consider that a lot of the field have jumped ship to TG's series. Obviously if you take a 15th placed driver, remove 10 of the drivers who were beating him, then he'd be expected to be 5th - not an improvement, but a dilution of the quality ahead of him. Ok, we've got some good rookies - Bourdais was REAL quality and I am a fan of Mario Haberfeld, having seen him at Brands, but I want to see some PROPER racers, some more talent heading into the series.

I love Champ Cars and am genuinely gutted they won't be back in the UK, but I want to see the competition be of a high standard.

Rustyfan, Wirdheim would have been an awesome addition to the championship. Zonta and Frentzen would have been good additions, and y hasn't Allan McNish been even looked at for a Champ Car drive?????

I just want to see some REAL quality on the 2004 grids...

[rustyfan]

Originally posted by spider
Rustyfan, Wirdheim would have been an awesome addition to the championship. Zonta and Frentzen would have been good additions, and y hasn't Allan McNish been even looked at for a Champ Car drive?????

I sure won't argue about that

But again, while Wirdheim did have a Champ Car deal going, when it started to lean more towards being able to get the test seat with Jaguar, I'm not surprised he decided to go for that.

Same thing with Zonta, being the official test driver for Toyota.

As for Frentzen and McNish... I dunno. I think Frentzen has a DTM deal going and McNish probably has his eyes set on sports-cars and Le Mans. Pure speculation on my part though, but yes, they would have been nice additions.

I think much of the recent uncertainties surrounding Champ Cars have put off quite a few drivers though, or at least had them look for more solid alternatives, seeing as most other championships had their line-ups finalized before OWRS had the judge rule in their favor.

[spider]

Very true, it's a shame, but if CC can put on a good show and push to 20 cars this season that'd send out a strong message to drivers across the world, if we're looking at 16 cars of Lavin's and Mazzacane's, then unforunately that series can't be seen as a world class championship. Oooo how controversial!!!

[rustyfan]

Right now, Champ Car needs is one thing; stability. If OWRS can show they can keep Champ Car afloat and make it stronger, more drivers will start to look at Champ Cars as an alternative again.

[spider]

Originally posted by rustyfan
Right now, Champ Car needs is one thing; stability. If OWRS can show they can keep Champ Car afloat and make it stronger, more drivers will start to look at Champ Cars as an alternative again.

Couldn't have put it better. Now, is there a Champ Car video game planned? Anyone who's played Colin McRae Rally will know what a computer game can do for a racing series...

[codename_47]

The last one I remember was CART:Precision racing, and that was DIRE!!

Mind you, it was based on the Movie Driven, so I guess that could explain it! (Take off on Turbo boost anyone? )

*Edit* Now that I come to think of it, I do remember a Champcar game on the origial Playstation that wasn't too shabby....though at the time I thought it was the then-F1 game dressed up with Champcar teams and tracks....:confused:

Re: the quality, what we need this year is a close, compettitive field....with hopefully not too much domination from Mr Tracy...

If even the Mazzacane's of the world do well this year, it may trigger some more racers to think:
"Hmmmm, if HE'S doing well, imagine what I could do in his seat!"

[camcartfan]

Hornish Jr a benchmark? Maybe in your series, not in this series.

[KC]

I have often wondered why teams like Minardi stay in F1. They could be very competitive at LeMans with their current techinical prowess. They could easily be a force in CART as well. I guess it pays better to be a pucnhing bag in F1 and sooths the ego to be able to walk around and say we race in F1.

[Mags]

McNish is driving for Audi, Nice and Stable. And PAID. Why would he come to Champ Cars?

[jjspierx]

Originally posted by codename_47
The last one I remember was CART:Precision racing, and that was DIRE!!

Mind you, it was based on the Movie Driven, so I guess that could explain it! (Take off on Turbo boost anyone? )

*Edit* Now that I come to think of it, I do remember a Champcar game on the origial Playstation that wasn't too shabby....though at the time I thought it was the then-F1 game dressed up with Champcar teams and tracks....:confused:

Re: the quality, what we need this year is a close, compettitive field....with hopefully not too much domination from Mr Tracy...

If even the Mazzacane's of the world do well this year, it may trigger some more racers to think:
"Hmmmm, if HE'S doing well, imagine what I could do in his seat!"

CART Precision Racing was produced by Microsoft and I forget who developed it. It actually wasn't terrible and attempted to be as realistic as possible. It came out WAY before the Movie driven, like in 97 or 98

[Omega99]

I think there was/is a PS2 game called CART Fury that was a crash a bang kind of game with impossible accidents like in Driven, though I've never played it so I can't really say anything for certain.

[Snrub]

I strongly disagree with the statement about Dominguez moving from 15th to 5th because 10 drivers were removed. There is zero question that he improved massively. Compare him to to the caliber of drivers he was able to run with. Finishing say 5th and running close to 4th who is a known quality driver is a lot different than running 5th and being lapped 3 times by the 4th place guy.

There were a lot of good new additions and guys who improved in the field last year. Throw in the closeness of the cars and PT's championship is not diminished in the least. He drove at his absolute best and there were very few drivers who drove at that caliber in any series last year.

I don't think there is much of an issue being able to find quality drivers. I think that if CART was healty and sponsorship dollars were available there could be one of the best fields in CART history. The point is things are really rough right now, that's why none of the stuff we'd like to see happen is happening.

[corkholio]

There is deeper problem than just the economy when all of a sudden guys like Lavin and Gonzalez are almost as popular as an insurance broker in federal prison.

[BootsOntheSide]

On the continuity point, this year we've lost Manning, Servia, Carpenter, Fernandez, Moreno, Salles, Boss and Montiero for sure, with Haberfeld, Junquiera and Salo all doubtful at best. The worst thing is that most of last eyar's promising rookies are gone, and we don't know that anyone of any calibre will be replacing them.

It's a sad thing to say, but the IRL has a much more impressive grid this year. Their races are guaranteed to be thrilling, close and unpredictable. ChampCars' races aren't even guaranteed to happen. The series is very close to my heart, and I'd love to see it reborn, but I'm starting to have serious doubts.

[spider]

I agree with you Boots, but the way this winter has gone has been shambolic for Champ Car, absolutely pathetic.

The drivers that will be lining up this season, if there is a season, shouldn't be anywhere near a major series, let alone be in the top drives. Can you imagine Lavin getting within a second of Tracy!? Oh dear, I love the cars, but the way this is going the pedallers aren't deserving of them...

[chunterer]

It looks pretty depressing really, despite the owners being confident of a better 2004 than last year?

Unfortunately i think the writing is on the wall for CC as much as i hate to see it. Some pretty serious negtiating is gonna have to happen to resurrect this class of racing.

There just isn't any money around at the moment and even IRL is struggling to get decent grids?

By the way McNish tested for Pacwest in 1997 and was apparently quicker than Kristensen, Jorg muller, Carpentier and Blundell, who got that drive. He never understood why he didn't get a drive with them or anoyone else?

Anyway, lets hope that those who race this year put ona good show that will encourage better entries for 2005