What is Aston Martin up to?

[Deleted]

So if SEAT says it wants to enter Mii Sport into LMGTE because it wants to be part of Le Mans and beat Ferrari 458 Italia on track to "prove" that their vaccuum cleaner cars are in fact sexy and fast, you would happily welcome it? It's not like under the current "regulations" and exceptions that would be impossible either...

[Koenigsegg]

Originally Posted by Chiana

So if SEAT says it wants to enter Mii Sport into LMGTE because it wants to be part of Le Mans and beat Ferrari 458 Italia on track to "prove" that their vaccuum cleaner cars are in fact sexy and fast, you would happily welcome it? It's not like under the current "regulations" and exceptions that would be impossible either...

Yes, I would.

For me it's not about what car models 'should' race against eachother. I'm just happy there are manufacturers who want to race. And give us a good show while doing so. It's up to the manufacturers to decide which car they want to promote as their sporty motorsports car. If it's a SEAT Mii Sport, then so be it. If it's a McLaren 650S, then so be it.

[Deleted]

They could run the Vanguish, yes, or Rapide S. Those are higher performance production models as well. But lines like this just indicate that they are lazy (and for a good reason as I previously said), and last month:

Originally Posted by Sportscar365

AMR team principal John Gaw confirmed that the Aston Martin Vantage GTE will receive an aero update for 2016, with an all-new car, based on the replacement to the Vantage road car, set to debut two years later.

“For sure we’ll have an update to this car for 2016,” Gaw told Sportscar365. “We are likely to have a brand-new, bottom-up everything, based on a different model for 2018, because that’s when the new road car comes out.

“You can only homologate a new car once every three years, so we wouldn’t want to homologate one for 2016.”

So putting all the excuses and actual reasons aside, by the end of 2017 when this car will be ultimately retired, the Aston Martin Vantage GT2/GTE/whatever will have raced for 9 years in ACO racing, with the last five in the hands of factory team. And no "aero updates" or 2012 "reworks" or "safety upgrades" will change the fact that it's pretty much the same vehicle that raced a decade earlier.

In a sense I guess none of this really matters anyway since even if they had say Vanquish or whatever it would just get bopped constantly like all the rest, but at least such model would look like the more deserving record holder for "most winning WEC GT marque" than what there is now. Oh well.

@Koenigsegg - It's a viewpoint I personally disagree to the core, but you're welcome to have that of course

[tux]

Originally Posted by Chiana

They could run the Vanguish, yes, or Rapide S. Those are higher performance production models as well. But lines like this just indicate that they are lazy (and for a good reason as I previously said), and last month:



So putting all the excuses and actual reasons aside, by the end of 2017 when this car will be ultimately retired, the Aston Martin Vantage GT2/GTE/whatever will have raced for 9 years in ACO racing, with the last five in the hands of factory team. And no "aero updates" or 2012 "reworks" or "safety upgrades" will change the fact that it's pretty much the same vehicle that raced a decade earlier.

In a sense I guess none of this really matters anyway since even if they had say Vanquish or whatever it would just get bopped constantly like all the rest, but at least such model would look like the more deserving record holder for "most winning WEC GT marque" than what there is now. Oh well.

@Koenigsegg - It's a viewpoint I personally disagree to the core, but you're welcome to have that of course

If you dont like it dont watch it?

At the end of the day AMR dont have another platform they can use other than the Vantage because this is the car that Aston Martin want to compete in the market with Ferrari and Porsche. Why should they build a whole new GTE on the same platform every couple of seasons?

Every year the 458 gets updates, the 997 RSR ran forever with updates.

[Deleted]

Look, if I want to watch a race involving LMP1 - and for the most part P2 - cars today, I have to watch these ones as well. There is no other option. And it was just three years ago that I was still here defending this class despite all the issues, I remember Speed-King (?) calling LMGTE the exact same as GT3 and arguing against it, and even in early 2012 I was still somewhat on their side, but I saw the truth.

And no, nobody should have to build new model after every couple of years "just because", but if you have the same basic car for 9 years, that is screaming for not wanting to bother. When they first introduced the car, they didn't run it themselves for 4 seasons but just let it to throwaway privateers until their P1 program collapsed and there was nothing else to grab on except that old car.

If they want specifically to have "Aston Martin Vantage" there for so long and keep the other models in bay, fine, but at least you could do major revamps to the car and not run the same thing for forever. Even a blind man can see that the thing on the racetrack today is the same as in 2008, with some cosmetic mods. And just as in 2008 in FIA GT and LMS, it needs a lot of help to keep up. If it wasn't for that help and ACO had treated that car the same as old Spykers, that car would never be running today. They themselves have said that they need breaks to keep up with the other cars (and apparently keeping up means winning more than them). So if there was a system that didn't award for having no development, might be inclided to something and not just show up and expect others to take care of the performance.

[Koenigsegg]

Originally Posted by Chiana

@Koenigsegg - It's a viewpoint I personally disagree to the core, but you're welcome to have that of course

Thank you. As would I welcome other opinions. Otherwise we would just end up in bunch of boring people. :P

Of course I would like to see Aston Martin to come up with a new car more fitting to the regulations. But for now I'm happy that we have 3 makes in WEC GTE instead of 2.


*Rapide S is not eligible because it has 4 doors. Only 2-door model cars are allowed.

[Deleted]

In a world of waivers it matters a little if there's two doors, four doors, or eight doors

[Koenigsegg]

Even ACO/IMSA/SRO/FIA care about that. When they start allowing that in, I'm going to agree on your opinion Chiana.

Only NASCAR doesn't care. Although the Mazda RX-8 and Mazda 6 looked great. But so out of place.

[Deleted]

No they only care for so long before someone comes and begs for it

ACO Rep: "Sorry to keep you waiting. So you were interested in running at Le Mans. Excellent to hear sir."
Manufacturer: "Yes we have these trendy little coupe here in our catalog, please take a look."
ACO Rep: "Looks like a beauty, and the base performance is easily balanceable by the look of things."
Manufacturer: "BoP it all, BoP it to heaven right?"
ACO Rep: "Hahaha certainly sir, certainly. It's the word of today. Now, if we look at... hmm. Hey, this here is a problem."
Manufacturer: "What, the placement of the engine?"
ACO Rep: "No no, that we can, erhm, easily fix without causing too much noise, but this. This car has four doors. LMGTE cars only have two."
Manufacturer: "And you say this causes a problem?"
ACO Rep: "Yes. Now if we look at this other model of yours well..."
Manufacturer: "No we want to race this one. If our four door model cannot complete as you say, we cannot come."
ACO Rep: "I'm sorry but then..."
Manufacturer:"And If we cannot come, we don't bring our cash bags"
ACO Rep: "But..."
Manufacturer: "Why cannot you just make an exception?"
ACO Rep: "Because our class is based on regulations."
Manufacturer: "No it isn't, our sister brand just had a talk with one of your collegues and he was implying the complete opposite."
ACO Rep: "Well I don't know what my associates have told, we have quite range of people with different agendas here you see, but I can assure you that here in ACO we..."
Manufacturer: "And even just a minute ago you were implying that the placement of this engine is wrong and that it needed to be 'fixed'. That sounds like a rules exception".
ACO Rep: "In other words yes, but..."
Manufacturer: "What does it matter if we have four doors, make waivers, just like for all the others. That model there has illegal engine, that had illegal width, that car is not a GT car at all, that one is just GT3, that one..."
ACO Rep: "Shh, it's a secret, technically."
Manufacturer: "No it isn't. Even some random fans on internet forums know about them. Just because you don't dare to publish the waivers list doesn't mean people cannot find about them."
ACO Rep: "Look sir, having a four door coupe is quite an visual revelation and sticks out very clearly from the other models. It's a little different than having waiver for 8 liter engine instead of max 5,5 liters while also having bigger base restrictor size for that larger displacement. Wait - did I say too much? Well, in any case, if we allow that four door model while our regulations say otherwise, it would give us perhaps bigger negative PR than..."
Manufacturer: "What it means is that you have crap regulations that are broken, and now that you have started giving waivers to some people you are have to give them basically to everybody so that everybody stays happy. It's a vicious cycle."
ACO Rep: "This is awfully harsh."
Manufacturer: "Don't blame me. Now, do you want our money or not? Or should we go and knock mr Ratel's door?"
ACO Rep: "Alright whatever, we'll give you a waiver"
Manufacturer: "Also for these 21 smaller items, waiver for them too?"
ACO Rep: "Okay..."

[TF110]

Lets have fantasy manufacturer entries and conversations, not much else to talk about

[Deleted]

In case of AMR, not really. Or do you have something to say about Aston Martin Racing's developments for the next... 3 years that the same Vantage will be run (with little mods)? And still retain the "most winning GTE marque" title

[rich07]

Speaking of Aston in 2015 I see that Kristen Poulsen is involved with a new team Massive Motorsport who want to run a V12 Vantage GT3 in ELMS. And DHH is also apparently looking at a p2 ride next year. So is this the end of the Danish GT Am entry in WEC?

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

In case of AMR, not really. Or do you have something to say about Aston Martin Racing's developments for the next... 3 years that the same Vantage will be run (with little mods)? And still retain the "most winning GTE marque" title

A new car hasn't helped others much, has it? Develop a new car for the same rules? Not sure that sounds like a great idea for a small marque thats pressed for cash like AM. All the rage in the world isnt going to make them use something besides the 'same Vantage'. Not sure theres even a point to be made except more bop talk. I rather not run in that circle again.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by rich07

Speaking of Aston in 2015 I see that Kristen Poulsen is involved with a new team Massive Motorsport who want to run a V12 Vantage GT3 in ELMS. And DHH is also apparently looking at a p2 ride next year. So is this the end of the Danish GT Am entry in WEC?

First off: His name is Kristian Poulsen .

But no, I think the Danish Young Drivers AMR car in GT Am, will continue as long as it is Jac Nellemann (dane) who owns most the cars, which AMR borrows to go racing.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by CTD

First off: His name is Kristian Poulsen .



But no, I think the Danish Young Drivers AMR car in GT Am, will continue as long as it is Jac Nellemann (dane) who owns most the cars, which AMR borrows to go racing.

Apologies to Kristian

I'd be quite happy if the Danish car continued, I like those guys for some reason, maybe because I am a big fan of Allan Simonsen (may he rest in peace-forever he lives on in our heart). Maybe Benny might drive the car one day.....

So Jac Nellermann owns the GT-Pro cars too? Would make sense considering I never heard of Frederic Dor getting involved with the Vantage unlike what he did with the 550 GTS and the Dbr9.

[Great Dane]

and while we are at names... everyone pronounces his name wrongly: it is more like "newgore"

[Simmi]

Speaking of Nygaard, he's been moved up to a gold ranking for next year which is going to impact his career in the Am ranks.

There will definitely need to be some reshuffling at Aston next year.

[pederb]

During the reveal of the new James Bond movie called Spectre they also introduced the DB10. If that is a final product or just a prototype was not mentioned.

[Gingers4Justice]

They're only making 10, so unfortunately this won't be the new GTE car. We'll have to wait for the new V8 Vantage for that.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by pederb

During the reveal of the new James Bond movie called Spectre they also introduced the DB10. If that is a final product or just a prototype was not mentioned.[/IMG]

This was the DB10 they revealed yesterday. Slightly more striking than whatever that is above.

[Deleted]

Yes not even in the old (2000's) GT1 would you have been able to race with only ten production cars. IIRC the MC12 had 50 road cars which was double the minimum requirement.

Anyway it's not necessarily gonna be 'V8 Vantage' that's gonna be transformed into new GTE car but some other. It's not gonna happen until 2018 anyway, they will keep bopping the old Vantage as per usual until then.

[Gingers4Justice]

Took you four sentences to mention Aston Martin's BOP. Are you going soft with the season's cheer, Chiana?

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Took you four sentences to mention Aston Martin's BOP. Are you going soft with the season's cheer, Chiana?

Yes.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Took you four sentences to mention Aston Martin's BOP. Are you going soft with the season's cheer, Chiana?

The Holiday spirit is getting to him, bring it on Santa!

[Speed-King]

Too bad that isn't happening.