What do you think was the 'golden era' of historic racing

[eigger]

I was pondering this whilst looking through Baubles old photos and remembering some of the meetings.People often talk about the golden age of motorsport but what about Historic Motorsport. I started watching historics in the 1980s when the VSCC made their annual visit to my local circuit Cadwell Park and ive been an enthusiastic spectator ever since. Over the years there have high points and low points as different series have come and gone, grids have varied in quality and quantity and different ages of cars have become 'historic' (eg SuperTourers). Thinking back i recall the best period (speaking as a spectator) was probably the late 2000s- say 2005 to 2010. When i say 'best' i mean from the perspective of grid size and quality, quality of tracks, and the organisation of the meeting. I cant justify my view quantitatively, its just a feeling. Whether youre a spectator, racer, marshall, organiser, official or any other interested party it would be interesting to know what people think was the golden age of historic racing, and why.
I dont know if this topic has been raised before; i couldnt find a thread.

[midgetman]

I think this is the golden age. Plenty of people willing to race their toys, top-notch race meetings. I fear that it will start to dwindle as the value of the cars goes stratospheric.

Also, this is probably the last generation of racers. Fewer and fewer people are seeing motor sport as a hobby IMO.

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[Lancsbreaker]

There may be a distinction between "classic" and "historic" racing - if the former, then I would go with Max. For Historic - which I would argue varies depending on your age, but I would pitch as cars from say pre-60s, (though I accept this is VERY variable) it is probably as suggested - late 90s-early 00s, before values got too silly....


Max's prediction about less people seeing it as a hobby has validity, but equally he does argue elsewhere that he has plenty of people asking for entry - just prevented by costs....

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

There may be a distinction between "classic" and "historic" racing - if the former, then I would go with Max. For Historic - which I would argue varies depending on your age, but I would pitch as cars from say pre-60s, (though I accept this is VERY variable) it is probably as suggested - late 90s-early 00s, before values got too silly....


Max's prediction about less people seeing it as a hobby has validity, but equally he does argue elsewhere that he has plenty of people asking for entry - just prevented by costs....

Can I defend myself m'lud? I think this is the Golden Era. Massive grids, lots of entries BUT I fear for the future. When will the future be? IDK, but it will crash soon. Entries are holding up but there is not a big follow-on generation.

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[bauble]

Golden Era? Easy to answer the 1960's I would say that is when Historic (as opposed to Vintage PVT) started. The closing event of the British GP was often a race for historic GP cars, and people started to resurrect cars like the 250F Maserati Cooper Bristol etc. before H&S caused people to add scaffolding to beautiful cars. The VSCC picked up on the trend, and I forget the sponsor who backed a series for them. Pure historic racing before the wealthy section of society moved in.Today JT's Fiscar is one of the best series around.

Of course Golden Era will depend very much on your age, as it is always the time you grew up in that decides what you think 'Golden'.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Can I defend myself m'lud? I think this is the Golden Era. Massive grids, lots of entries BUT I fear for the future. When will the future be? IDK, but it will crash soon. Entries are holding up but there is not a big follow-on generation.

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I do tend to agree with that, esp as I think that motorsport for people like me is getting close to being unjustifiable. I do still justify it for my number of events and, ahem, competitiveness but as I get nearer to thinking about how good retirement might be then the equation is getting difficult to answer!
Also, I think that the vast increase in one - make series at national level and the vast complexity of things like LMP cars at international level means that historic racing in the future (ie racing cars that are largely current in the 2010s/2020s) might have limited appeal.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by bauble

The closing event of the British GP was often a race for historic GP cars, and people started to resurrect cars like the 250F Maserati Cooper Bristol etc. before H&S caused people to add scaffolding to beautiful cars. The VSCC picked up on the trend, and I forget the sponsor who backed a series for them. Pure historic racing before the wealthy section of society moved in.Today JT's Fiscar is one of the best series around.

Of course Golden Era will depend very much on your age, as it is always the time you grew up in that decides what you think 'Golden'.

First in relation to Bauble's post:
I cant say for sure when they started but I know when I became independent as a 16/17 year old with own transport, (c1971) able to go to races, I seem to recall many major meetings featured a Historic support race for 50's and 60's GP and Sports Cars. I believe JCB / Mr Bamford sponsored them.

This might be subsequent to races you recall, Bob, but them Im only a young pup.

As to the thread question I am a bit torn. Half of me thinks as Bob suggests, back in my days as a yoof, but maybe that is me being influenced by the fact the 'modern cars at the time are of course now running as Historics. Yes we had the as mentioned JCB events, but back then for me Hillclimbs were my source of general Historic cars. I dont recall there being many actual Historic meetings then.

Thanks to modern technology I am now able to follow and even be involved in true Historic racing nowadays most weekends, either live and in person at the many local historic meetings like Phillip Island, Sandown etc plus our regular VSCC and HTC events, which pre Covid (PI )might boast well over 600 entries across various categories, many from overseas. Often with cars sent from Alfa and Porsche themselves to special anniversaries. Of course live is better, the ability to catch up with old friends in a social and competitive arena. Here in Aus we have a huge Historic Touring Car following, both Masters categories and more humble categories. Every modern meeting here will feature Historic cars so Historic Racing is plentiful.

However I can now also, thanks to live streaming and modern tech, enjoy many of the overseas Historic major classic events like Goodwood, Silverstone Classic, Monterey, Spa 6 hours, the Peter Auto events, the list is endless. Circuit racing, Hillclimbs Rallies, Tours etc etc.

Not the same as live of course, but I can become immersed in the sounds and vision of true pieces of History due to the high number of genuine and recreated toys mentioned by others. In recent locked down times many of these events were manna from heaven, and much appreciated, sat in front of the big screen on my recliner, glass in hand. And no need to wear a mask or get cold and wet.

So from a personal access and ability to follow POV I think the Golden Era is now. The variety available from a mundane VSCC / HTC clubbie to a world famous classic meetings is immense.


Edit: Bob I found this link to Bamford.....: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...nship-resolved

[terence]

Early nineties to 2010 ish. Or at least till circuit hire etc etc started ti rise.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

There may be a distinction between "classic" and "historic" racing

Spot on Richard. And may be eigger's question requires a clarification about the nation and/or continent. In the french desert I'd say as terence, may be from '95 to 2007. Thanks to Eric Van de Vyver's efforts to maintain the french championship strong. All went bad at the beginning of 2008.

Since then, as already discussed here with Mike B and others, it depends on the series. Clear, well accepted and policed regulation make a healthy series but we dont have dozens…

[andy97]

I do actually wonder whether the popularity of historic, and especially club level “classic”, racing will lead to its own downfall as it seems to me that classic racing series (which for no real reason I am going to define as for cars that are pre year 2000) are far more popular these days than series for current production cars. Cost and weight are probably big factors. If that’s the case then there are not going to be many current production cars that are racing now that are going to available to race in a, say, “2015-2022” historic championship in the future!

[Gerard C]

Depends on the electrical supply I suppose…

[rbs]

I agree with Bauble, bac when these races(not meetings) started it was full of "real" cars, that owners wanted to race, as these owners aged and cars were sold, many abroad, we lost the real cars and the replicas, continuation or fakes all started to appear.
Thanks do go to JCB & Lloyds & Scottish for supporting these races. The VSCC must be congratulated for continuing with post war racing cars. They kept a place for things like ERA's to race for many years until the "festival" events started to appear. The VSCC supported thses cars for years and in recent times we have meetings without ERA's, the owners seem to have forgotten who made these cars valuable and now seem to support the festivals. For me the golden era was 60's & 70's even though I enjoy todays offerings.

[Duddha]

The nineties all the way to 2005-2008. The cars were more real, the spirit was different, there was a mix, variety, Ferraris were still out, it was not just Cobra, E-Type, Elan, Cortina or Mini and MG B. There were special things raced in anger and fun, much more fun in the paddock then today.

[The Fat Clerk]

I think it's very subjective.
Some of the cars the were @ the same meetings as me in the 70's are now classed as Historic, just makes me feel old!
The highlight of last season for me was the VSCC Edwardian race @ Oulton Park absolutely fantastic.

[coppice]

I attend HSCC , CSCC and VSCC events regularly , as well as Goodwood MM and Silverstone Classic.

Historic racing , in its many and wonderfully diverse forms , has been my preferred form of racing for at least decade . Not (only ) because of my advancing years but because it is the best show in town - big grids , close racing , excellent driving standards and , most of all , no spec formulae , with which most modern racing is lumbered with . At any typical historic event I can hear a splendid variety of engines - 4s 6s 8s and sometimes 3s, 10s and 12s too. The sound of most modern racing is that flat ,phlegmy , flatulent drone of turbo fours.

As for best period - it's been great for years and let's not get too meta by being nostalgic about past nostalgia .

If I owned a genuine period racer with provenance I might get tight lipped about replicas and Goodwood Specials , like implausibly fast Sixties cars which never shone in period . I lose no sleep over this -every racing car is a triggers broom to some degree and I defy anybody with an ounce of enthusiasm not to be thrilled with races such as the last Gerry Marshall Trophy .

[bauble]

Originally Posted by coppice

I attend HSCC , CSCC and VSCC events regularly , as well as Goodwood MM and Silverstone Classic.

Historic racing , in its many and wonderfully diverse forms , has been my preferred form of racing for at least decade . Not (only ) because of my advancing years but because it is the best show in town - big grids , close racing , excellent driving standards and , most of all , no spec formulae , with which most modern racing is lumbered with . At any typical historic event I can hear a splendid variety of engines - 4s 6s 8s and sometimes 3s, 10s and 12s too. The sound of most modern racing is that flat ,phlegmy , flatulent drone of turbo fours.

As for best period - it's been great for years and let's not get too meta by being nostalgic about past nostalgia .

If I owned a genuine period racer with provenance I might get tight lipped about replicas and Goodwood Specials , like implausibly fast Sixties cars which never shone in period . I lose no sleep over this -every racing car is a triggers broom to some degree and I defy anybody with an ounce of enthusiasm not to be thrilled with races such as the last Gerry Marshall Trophy .

A lot of good sense there Cop.

[john ruston]

As far as Pre War Sports the ultimate time for real cars were the Bob Wood organised races at Coys Festival in late 90’s for about six years.
No specials ,no special specials and cars built in the last century rather than last week.

[bauble]

Originally Posted by john ruston

As far as Pre War Sports the ultimate time for real cars were the Bob Wood organised races at Coys Festival in late 90’s for about six years.
No specials ,no special specials and cars built in the last century rather than last week.

John, Coys took over the festival from some fashion house who promoted an Historic meeting for several years before, the owner was a fan of the older cars, I remeber sending him a few photographs from the event. Can you recall who it was, my historic/vintage/veteran memory is not up to it?

Cheers,
Bob.

[coppice]

It was Mulberry , in the form of Roger Saul if I recall correctly .

[john ruston]

That’s the man!
Nice fellow who turned up at Silverstone with a superb P3 later and believe it finished third behind Alta and FN
Not been involved with Pre War Sports cars since as far as I am aware

[eigger]

Originally Posted by E.B

However I can now also, thanks to live streaming and modern tech, enjoy many of the overseas Historic major classic events like Goodwood, Silverstone Classic, Monterey, Spa 6 hours, the Peter Auto events, the list is endless. Circuit racing, Hillclimbs Rallies, Tours etc etc.

Not the same as live of course, but I can become immersed in the sounds and vision of true pieces of History due to the high number of genuine and recreated toys mentioned by others. In recent locked down times many of these events were manna from heaven, and much appreciated, sat in front of the big screen on my recliner, glass in hand. And no need to wear a mask or get cold and wet.

This is a good point and one that hadnt occurred to me; internet streaming of top level events from across the world is great development

[eigger]

Originally Posted by Duddha

The nineties all the way to 2005-2008. The cars were more real, the spirit was different, there was a mix, variety, Ferraris were still out, it was not just Cobra, E-Type, Elan, Cortina or Mini and MG B. There were special things raced in anger and fun, much more fun in the paddock then today.

It may be my rose tinted spectacles but it does feel like pre-2010 there were more well known car with historic racing provenance. Maybe theyre too valuable now and the racing is too 'physical' to risk them.

[eigger]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

I think it's very subjective.
Some of the cars the were @ the same meetings as me in the 70's are now classed as Historic, just makes me feel old!
The highlight of last season for me was the VSCC Edwardian race @ Oulton Park absolutely fantastic.

The appearance of the VSCC Edwardians is a good argument for now being the golden age. This and the emergence of the Races such as the Gerry Marshall and the TonyDron/HTC at the other end of the age range has really extended the breadth of what is historic. I would add SuperTourers but that seems to be in a bit of slough at the moment.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by eigger

……..I would add SuperTourers but that seems to be in a bit of slough at the moment.

The CTCRC have launched their own version of a Super Tourer series. There’s only room for one of these to succeed. Lots of positive internet chat but the proof will be in the entry lists when the season starts. Not sure what the HSCC are perceived to have done wrong for people to want to jump ship.

[rbs]

Originally Posted by andy97

The CTCRC have launched their own version of a Super Tourer series. There’s only room for one of these to succeed. Lots of positive internet chat but the proof will be in the entry lists when the season starts. Not sure what the HSCC are perceived to have done wrong for people to want to jump ship.

How about practice and Races that are to short in time and an entry fee that is too high, to start with.