SUPER TOURING CARS- what’s the future?

[The SpeCTator]

Originally Posted by The SpeCTator

Definitely in favour of dropping Super Tourers.
Poor entries prevail at most rounds with Brands scraping the race before the meeting started.
Maybe a couple of feature races a year would be appropriate.

Just 13 Super Tourers entered for Gold Cup. Time for action!

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by The SpeCTator

Just 13 Super Tourers entered for Gold Cup. Time for action!

HSCC has hoped to bolster the grids with older GA/G2 cars but these categories just don't seem to compliment each other for a full series.

Headline events maybe ok though where a big field is the norm.

Several popular series are struggling a bit though, mainly the ones where the hardware is the more expensive.

However, these things tend to be fluid and who knows, next year ST might get bigger grids again.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by chunterer

HSCC has hoped to bolster the grids with older GA/G2 cars but these categories just don't seem to compliment each other for a full series.

Headline events maybe ok though where a big field is the norm.

Several popular series are struggling a bit though, mainly the ones where the hardware is the more expensive.

However, these things tend to be fluid and who knows, next year ST might get bigger grids again.

The size of the entry for the Gold Cup race was mentioned as being the ‘make or break’ for a decision on next season. So not sure..... Yes, Gp2 and GpA cars in the main not a good mix with STs, especially the former- I tried it once! Mark Wright gave it a good go with his Mk2 RS1800, but not sure if he’s still campaigning his current RS500 with them?

[andy97]

I actually think we should open this out and ask what the future is for historic racing in the future, for (say) post year 2000 cars. The STs demonstrate how difficult/ expensive it is to run relatively recent cars and the technology is often perishable or kept close by manufacturers. The importance of aero in current cars also doesn't help.

Who can envisage running a "historic" F1 series or LMP Series in 10-20 years time for cars from the early part of the 21st Century?

Running cars from the feeder formulae/ series in the future will have a different issue - there are just too many "one make" formulae. Who wants to see a series for "historic GP2/3" or "World Series by Renault", or Clio Cup etc etc?

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by andy97

I actually think we should open this out and ask what the future is for historic racing in the future, for (say) post year 2000 cars. The STs demonstrate how difficult/ expensive it is to run relatively recent cars and the technology is often perishable or kept close by manufacturers. The importance of aero in current cars also doesn't help.

Who can envisage running a "historic" F1 series or LMP Series in 10-20 years time for cars from the early part of the 21st Century?

Running cars from the feeder formulae/ series in the future will have a different issue - there are just too many "one make" formulae. Who wants to see a series for "historic GP2/3" or "World Series by Renault", or Clio Cup etc etc?

I think you've hit the nail firmly on the head here Andy. The extra complication (and electronicification) of later racing cars is going to be a huge barrier to keeping them running, and especially keeping them running at an affordable level. Back in the day Super Touring Cars were either works run or at least very professionally run cars with a budget to match. Some of what was state of the art technology back then is maybe obsolete now. It's OK to have engine parts re-made (if you can afford it) but some of the electronics just cannot be reproduced nowadays.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I think you've hit the nail firmly on the head here Andy. The extra complication (and electronicification) of later racing cars is going to be a huge barrier to keeping them running, and especially keeping them running at an affordable level. Back in the day Super Touring Cars were either works run or at least very professionally run cars with a budget to match. Some of what was state of the art technology back then is maybe obsolete now. It's OK to have engine parts re-made (if you can afford it) but some of the electronics just cannot be reproduced nowadays.

I think I read somewhere that McLaren were buying up old lap tops of 1990s vintage, because they were the only ones with the ability to run the software and/ or the floppy discs to examine the electronics in the McLaren F1 road car!

I worry that I cant get front wings for my Audi Quattro; in the future, we will have racing cars sitting in museums that cant be started because the software is corrupt, the microchip has deteriorated and the hybrid system doesn't work.

[Sodemo]

Sad to see only 5-6 real super tourers turn up at Oulton Park.

I do wonder what will happen next year. I spoke to a few of the drivers, they dont really have the answer to the problems of grid numbers. One driver said part of it is down to no one really trying to rally numbers in order to get the grids up. Another driver said that the better 2019 Dunlop tyres may bring a few drivers back.

Is there any way they could "pool resources"?. I know that sounds easier than it would be in reality, but there needs to be some kind of universal support across all cars or something. I saw one team struggling to get a car going, whilst the engineers from another team looks on. Its debatable whether they could have helped, but its that kind of thing which I think perhaps needs looking at. These cars can be (are) temperamental and require lots of maintenance, so if there was a common support network / agreement maybe that could help?

I know Dave Jarman and Johnny Westbrook were doing something along those lines (probably unofficially) in years gone by, as id see Johnny with his head deep in a different car's engine bay every time I saw him, however as I understand it they both have nothing to do with the series now and its solely being run by the HSCC.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I saw one team struggling to get a car going, whilst the engineers from another team looks on. Its debatable whether they could have helped, but its that kind of thing which I think perhaps needs looking at. These cars can be (are) temperamental and require lots of maintenance, so if there was a common support network / agreement maybe that could help?

In a way, this just reflects our modern society, more's the pity. We all seem to live in our own small bubble.

50 odd years ago, it was not uncommon for rival teams to help out those in trouble on a regular basis. I am forever grateful to the Boreham team of Bert Avard lying under my car helping my lads remove the gearbox so that we could replace the broken flywheel bolts that had sheared off; and in a horrendous thunder storm with the rain coming down like stair rods. Oh, and Bert provided the bolts as well.

And my way of repaying them was to beat their man, Roger Taylor for the overall win - my very first. And it was one of the very few times that I outran Roger.

Now, I am sure that some of that still exists today. But I am sure that it is less common.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Sad to see only 5-6 real super tourers turn up at Oulton Park.

8 entered, 7 raced.

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I do wonder what will happen next year. I spoke to a few of the drivers, they dont really have the answer to the problems of grid numbers. One driver said part of it is down to no one really trying to rally numbers in order to get the grids up. Another driver said that the better 2019 Dunlop tyres may bring a few drivers back.

It seems to be that there is no one big thing that is the root of the problem, or at least not one that everyone can agree on.

Tyres, entry fees, number of meetings, choice of venues, dates, hospitality, lack of promotion, availability of spares, running cost, rival series (for non-ST entries), and probably a few I've forgotten. Depending on who you speak to, any or all of the above are either a huge problem, a minor irritation, or not an issue at all; and everyone you speak to will give you a different combination of answer.

[PDS]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Tyres, entry fees, number of meetings, choice of venues, dates, hospitality, lack of promotion, availability of spares, running cost, rival series (for non-ST entries), and probably a few I've forgotten. Depending on who you speak to, any or all of the above are either a huge problem, a minor irritation, or not an issue at all; and everyone you speak to will give you a different combination of answer.

Another reason you missed Redshoes is Old age! And I don't mean the cars!
I know of at least 3 drivers that have 'Retired' from racing and between them they have access to 8 cars.
There are other drivers that have found other cars to race in other classes, so no Peugeot 406, Opel Astra, Alfa 155 and extra Cavaliers.


Although I have been told by one owner that he has the answer and is expecting to race all 3 of his Supertourers during 2019.


I for one believe he will..

[zefarelly]

I thought this was a branch of the Goodwood thread about saloon cars