Rolling Starts in Historic Racing (from Masters Snet thread)

[Robyn Slater]

Maybe a silly question but,
Why were all the races rolling starts?

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Robyn Slater

Maybe a silly question but,
Why were all the races rolling starts?

Because all Masters races are nowadays. They adopted them for some series then spread it to all of them.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by Robyn Slater

Maybe a silly question but,
Why were all the races rolling starts?

I take most of the blame . I campaigned hard for rolling starts for all Masters series races as I believe it's safer and certainly it's kinder on the transmissions of historic cars.

[morninggents]

Sorry, but that's one more reason now I won't race with Masters.

[terence]

Each to their own,but at least we have never had any StartLine Shunt's.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by johngee

I take most of the blame . I campaigned hard for rolling starts for all Masters series races as I believe it's safer and certainly it's kinder on the transmissions of historic cars.

Very valid reasons for them, John. Personally don't have an problem with standing or rolling, only thing that grates when using latter is when in a big grid and not near front some drivers still don't get the bit about not overtaking before they cross the start line! (Spa & Portimao easily spring to mind )

But all this has been covered before.........

[terence]

Quite agree Mike,only thing to try is regular use of rear veiw and block if you need to!

[Robyn Slater]

I've never done rolling start but watching on sunday there always seems to be alot of stragglers at the back who need to play catchup.

[zefarelly]

only rolling start I did was Spa . . . daft, as we came round La Source in 1st lead cars where drifting through EuRouge, it was catgoriaclly stated 60 Kph until start line, a majority nailed it out of La Source.

rolling is a good idea for longer races, I always think the mad dash for a suicidal first corner pile up is nuts when you've got another 59 minutes and 55 seconds to get the job done properly

[terence]

Quite strange just how many we sometimes get Robyn,what the 'Stragglers' obviously don't realise is that they are holding the rest of the field back,on some occasion's the SC will be traveling at a very slow 35mph in an attempt to get the grid correctly 'bunched up',that,in some instances, is still too quick!Very frustrating for those in V8 engined cars and not really making use of the opportunity to warm up tyres and brakes.

[terence]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

only rolling start I did was Spa . . . daft, as we came round La Source in 1st lead cars where drifting through EuRouge, it was catgoriaclly stated 60 Kph until start line, a majority nailed it out of La Source.

rolling is a good idea for longer races, I always think the mad dash for a suicidal first corner pile up is nuts when you've got another 59 minutes and 55 seconds to get the job done properly

That's traditional at Spa Zef,everyone thinking they cannot be seen by Race Control!

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

....... I always think the mad dash for a suicidal first corner pile up is nuts when you've got another 59 minutes and 55 seconds to get the job done properly

Totally agree....as the saying goes, you certainly wont win a long race at the first corner.....you may lose it there....but you certainly wont win it!

A correct rolling start is the safest start I think, and if the competitors listen at the briefing as to how we want it done then there shouldn't be a problem. The pace car should be driven at a reasonable pace for the first part of the rolling lap, enabling the cars to warm tyres/brakes etc but, as Terry pointed out by the last part of that lap, should be down to around 40mph (dependent on whats behind it) when it exits the circuit. What the drivers have to realise is the race DOESNT start when that pace car exits the circuit , it should not be a dash to the line either, it starts when they cross the line so they should still be in two by two formation when they cross the line and when everyone obeys that rule...it works and works very well....it also looks quite good as well. It is kinder on cars (particularly older cars) and there is less risk with regard to stalling on the grid etc

There, i shall now return my soap box to race control

[Robyn Slater]

I cant knock it as i havn't tried it.
It must be frustrating if you've not qualified well and you get stuck behind the stragglers until you reach the start line

[terence]

Or indeed a huge amount of fun!

[Moosehead]

I've done both rolling and standing starts and have no problem with either but must admit there's a much greater sense of excitement when sitting on the grid with 30 odd revving engines waiting for the lights to go out.

[DaveGT6]

Done both. In Europe we don't seem to know what we're doing due to rarity of rolling starts - in the USA they work really well. From my perspective I hate standing starts - they are dangerous and incredibly hard on the drive train. Fine if you are a professional team that will rebulid after every race but us clubbies that need a crown wheel and pinion to last for years it is a real strain on resources. I guess the trouble is our dinky little circuits just don't facilite rolling starts?

[terence]

Never had any problem regarding the width any circuit Dave,ALL of the problems are down to competitor ignorance!

As a Racer,I have obviously done both,I think that really speaking,the rolling start is the better option,as has been said,its kinder on the car and with the ever increasing BTCC driver attitudes creaping into Historics,certainly safer/cheaper to perform.As to the excitement level,I find that keeping up on the pace set by the pace car/over competitiors and making sure that when the line is crossed,the car is accelerating as quickly as it can gives more satisfaction the a standing start.

[pieterbakker]

.

We had a pile up of cars in the first corner at Assen in 1994, I believe it was. In consultation with the clerk of the course, we then and there decided to change our standing starts into rolling starts and never experienced another accident.

I agree though, that the start procedure should be well executed and the series co-ordinator should talk the procedure through with all parties concerned (clerk of the course - pacecar - polesitter) very seriously.

Below the starting rules for the F.I.S.C. Legendary Circuits Series;

·The grid will be lined up in two lines in the assembly area.
·Cars must keep their designated gridslot under all circumstances.
·Cars will then make one formation lap behind the pace car at 50 mph (80 km).

·Cars must stay in line (no weaving!) during this formation lap in such way, that each line could be overtaken on either side if necessary.
·Gridrows are separated exactly (no less, no more!!) by 2 car lengths. This automatically excludes practice starts during the formation lap!
·At the end of the formation lap the pace car will pull into the pitlane.
·The polesitter will then continue to pace the grid at exactly the same speed to the starting area, where the green light will be shown.
Note: should the green light not be shown, then presumably the clerk of the course has aborted the start procedure and cars will follow the polesitter for another lap. Be aware, that this lap normally will be deducted from the overall number of laps.
·Should a competitor experience some kind of mechanical problem, when approaching the starting area, he/she must wave his arm in such way, that upcoming competitors are aware of this situation. At the same moment this driver must step out of line, giving way to upcoming competitors, while still waving his/her arm until he/she has been overtaken by all upcoming competitors.
·Cars are allowed to accelerate only when reaching the starting line!
·In order to enforce the starting regulations, the start will be video taped.
·In consultation with the clerk of the course, offenders will be put on the back of the results and at the back of the grid of the next race of that event.


As I said, they worked fine for us,

Enjoy,

Pieter BAKKER
http://www.facebook.com/pieter1bakker

.

[midgetman]

I did Pieter's rolling starts for few years, and they were always fair and exciting. It's fun going round in convoy on the start lap, gives you a bit of a chance to look at the crowd, your mates alongside you, out-psyche them in the run to the line, and we still seem to bunch up nicely for some good dicing into the first corner.

And I never damaged a halfshaft or a gearbox in 3 years, even using standard equipment. I'm a fan!

[JimW]

From observation over many years I agree with all the comments about safety (and I'm sure, mechanical sympathy) but there are some circuits which do not have a startline position/layout which is optimum for delivering a safe and fair start. In the UK Donington must be the worst example followed perhaps by Thruxton.

Just a comment; I'm not sure there is a remedy.

Regards

Jim

[zefarelly]

too true Moosehead . . .and it highlights how many people don't know how to pull away in a controlled fashion especially in the wet!

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by Moosehead

I've done both rolling and standing starts and have no problem with either but must admit there's a much greater sense of excitement when sitting on the grid with 30 odd revving engines waiting for the lights to go out.

Or on as the case may be... not a driver so not fit to comment, except OK as long as drivers and officials can agree exactly the point when/where the start took place! Spa, bless it, is a favourite for being not quite sure even now nearly 40 years on

[GORDON STREETER]

Well just to put my tuppence worth in, I have done both for years and I agree that rolling starts are the safer option especially with capacity grids. Also my tiny single plate sintered clutch doesn't like being slipped with 9500 on the clock.
As for stragglers that wont keep up, I was in a race at Spa a few years back and had a problem in qualifying that put me near the back. Before I got to La Source the front runners had gone through Eau Rouge and were going up the straight the other side. However there was a coming together at the top of the hill and all hell let loose, as I had a clear view I could see a way through and gained about 20 places immediately.

[morninggents]

But this is HISTORIC racing we're talking about and I don't seem to recall rolling starts in period.

[midgetman]

Of course it's historic racing but it's contemporary wallets. Things are different now. There are some things about the period we don't want to recreate.