Lites / LMP3

[Juntos]

We have just two credible LMP3 prototypes ... Ligier and Norma.

It shows ACO needs to be more careful picking up the manufacturers.

[Ospi]

Don't think we can ignore what Ginetta did for the category though, as they flew the flag solo for awhile and got the series exposure and interest from teams before Onroak released their car. But yeah, sadly we currently only have 2 brands worth having and hopefully when the new regs are released (I think 2019?) there will be more interest from other parties.

I expect the regs won't change much though apart from a power increase and wouldn't be surprised if Onroak offer an upgrade package which may sway teams from looking elsewhere.

[chernaudi]

The LMP3s need a power hike, especially in classes where they're not the lead class and in multi-class racing. The ACO did it for LMP2 already, but that was when new regs got phased in.

And I don't think we'll see anyone new come into LMP3 as the regs for that class are due for an overhaul and no one will want to develop a car for a customer car class that won't sell in serious numbers when new regs are a couple of years away.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And I don't think we'll see anyone new come into LMP3 as the regs for that class are due for an overhaul and no one will want to develop a car for a customer car class that won't sell in serious numbers when new regs are a couple of years away.

We won't see anyone new for a while for a much simpler reason: Only five constructors allowed.

[chernaudi]

I don't think that matters, because in reality only two matter, and those are Ligier and Norma, who are selling race winning cars. The Ginetta might still be homologated, but no one's running it for reasons that are well known here, the Riley isn't selling in Europe, and I don't even know who the 5th maker is.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I don't think that matters, because in reality only two matter, and those are Ligier and Norma, who are selling race winning cars. The Ginetta might still be homologated, but no one's running it for reasons that are well known here, the Riley isn't selling in Europe, and I don't even know who the 5th maker is.

There isn't a strict limit of 5. There was 5 and then Norma was added, bringing it to 6. Dome then dropped out and it was back down to 5.

Ginetta
Ligier
Norma
Ave Riley
Adess

[chernaudi]

And still, out of those 5, only Ligier (Onroak) and Norma are relevant as far as race winning cars. 5-6 cars might be allowed, but if two emerge as the best, those are the ones that will sell. The Ginetta might have launched the class, but became obsolescent pretty quickly, the Riley isn't selling, and the Adess was junk out of the box.

No matter how many choices one is given, in a customer car dominated class, the customer will still decide the market.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

There isn't a strict limit of 5. There was 5 and then Norma was added, bringing it to 6. Dome then dropped out and it was back down to 5.

Ginetta
Ligier
Norma
Ave Riley
Adess

There is indeed a strict limit of five: http://sportscar365.com/lemans/elms/...-constructors/

Dome withdrew before Norma was approved.

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And still, out of those 5, only Ligier (Onroak) and Norma are relevant as far as race winning cars. 5-6 cars might be allowed, but if two emerge as the best, those are the ones that will sell. The Ginetta might have launched the class, but became obsolescent pretty quickly, the Riley isn't selling, and the Adess was junk out of the box.

No matter how many choices one is given, in a customer car dominated class, the customer will still decide the market.

I think it's unfair to say the Ginetta wasn't as good, there's been plenty of races to show its speed, the phase out of those cars was more due to sporting politics

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

I think it's unfair to say the Ginetta wasn't as good, there's been plenty of races to show its speed, the phase out of those cars was more due to sporting politics

Quality and support was an issue too. The car was fast enough but it had serious build quality problems and a few teams had some very harsh words about the cars publicly.

The Norma was in the design process before Dome pulled out. At one point we did have 6 potential LMP3s. And at one point that limit was also 4. It isn't a hard limit and will move if they want it to.

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Quality and support was an issue too. The car was fast enough but it had serious build quality problems and a few teams had some very harsh words about the cars publicly.



The Norma was in the design process before Dome pulled out. At one point we did have 6 potential LMP3s. And at one point that limit was also 4. It isn't a hard limit and will move if they want it to.

Fair point, my thought was more about the Ginettas outright pace which as you say was good. Shame the reliability wasn't high enough.

Honestly I'd like to see another solid manufacturer

I discount Riley for now, maybe they got lost building the P2 and forgot about the P3.

Adess have been pretty average only managing success in less competitive series

It'd be good to have 4 realistic level pegged manufacturers

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Yes indeed. Definitely want in stuck to the tarmac.

That splitter looks like a wing! If he does go off, he may be able to glide back to the starting line

More details of the Romain Dumas Norma MXX RD Limited.
http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/rom...-a-pikes-peak/

[hondafan37]

New Pescarolo LM-04 for V de V, Sprint Serie, 24H Proto Creventic and a new Pescarolo Cup.
https://fr.motorsport.com/endurance/...urance-915022/

[joeb]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

New Pescarolo LM-04 for V de V, Sprint Serie, 24H Proto Creventic and a new Pescarolo Cup.
https://fr.motorsport.com/endurance/...urance-915022/

Well that kind of came out of nowhere. I wonder if they had interest in doing a P3 car but we're locked out of the market?

[bentley speed 8]

Seriously it is time to add a few more manufacturers to the eligible list. Ginetta, Adess and Riley are pretty much useless at this point.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by bentley speed 8

Seriously it is time to add a few more manufacturers to the eligible list. Ginetta, Adess and Riley are pretty much useless at this point.

Or maybe open to allow all manufacturer wanting to enter, and allow other engines as well, like the old LMP2.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

Or maybe open to allow all manufacturer wanting to enter, and allow other engines as well, like the old LMP2.

Riley has amazing powers it has an invisible cloaking device

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

New Pescarolo LM-04 for V de V, Sprint Serie, 24H Proto Creventic and a new Pescarolo Cup.
https://fr.motorsport.com/endurance/...urance-915022/

Pleasant surprise, sharp looking car, and I'll just bet they can drop that Oreca-Nissan engine in the back the instant a manufacturer withdraws from LMP3(no mention was made of whether or not it's built to the LMP3 tub specifications that I could find reading the Google Translated version of the article, though).

I hope to see more manufacturers follow suit with this idea. Ginetta showed off a REALLY good idea for a track day car when they dropped the LS3 into the LMP3 to make the G57.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

New Pescarolo LM-04 for V de V, Sprint Serie, 24H Proto Creventic and a new Pescarolo Cup.
https://fr.motorsport.com/endurance/...urance-915022/

Good to see Pescarolo Sport getting active again.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Pleasant surprise, sharp looking car, and I'll just bet they can drop that Oreca-Nissan engine in the back the instant a manufacturer withdraws from LMP3(no mention was made of whether or not it's built to the LMP3 tub specifications that I could find reading the Google Translated version of the article, though).

I hope to see more manufacturers follow suit with this idea. Ginetta showed off a REALLY good idea for a track day car when they dropped the LS3 into the LMP3 to make the G57.

I couldn't tell about the tub either it said it was carbon but it didn't say if it also had the same steel roll cage that the p3s have

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by joeb

I couldn't tell about the tub either it said it was carbon but it didn't say if it also had the same steel roll cage that the p3s have

Based on the look of the car I'd almost bet money that if it DOESN'T use the LMP3-spec tub they could build a version that does in about a week if a spot opened up in LMP3.

[hondafan37]

New upgraded for the Wolf GB08 MJ-V8 of the JFC Racing for the next 25 Hours of Thunderhill.

https://scontent.faep3-1.fna.fbcdn.n...5a&oe=59E5D9F8
https://scontent.faep3-1.fna.fbcdn.n...41&oe=59DBC2AA
https://scontent.faep3-1.fna.fbcdn.n...c5&oe=59AEB91F

The Team said:
The first time on track with the new upgraded Palatov Motorsport, LLC parts for the MJ-V8. Miles Jackson shook the car down and said it has the best grip he has ever felt from the car with this big of a change to the suspension and drive components. 15" Jongbloed Racing Inc. wheels and the new Avon's have put some new life back into the grip and feel of the car. Back out for some more testing next Friday. Focus is on the NASA 25 Hours of Thunderhill. We are not afraid of any R8's, SR3's, M20's, G57's, DP's or Tornados. We just need to work on sound, so we can turn the JFC-V8 loose and let the RPM's sing.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

New upgraded for the Wolf GB08 MJ-V8 of the JFC Racing for the next 25 Hours of Thunderhill.

https://scontent.faep3-1.fna.fbcdn.n...5a&oe=59E5D9F8
https://scontent.faep3-1.fna.fbcdn.n...41&oe=59DBC2AA
https://scontent.faep3-1.fna.fbcdn.n...c5&oe=59AEB91F

The Team said:
The first time on track with the new upgraded Palatov Motorsport, LLC parts for the MJ-V8. Miles Jackson shook the car down and said it has the best grip he has ever felt from the car with this big of a change to the suspension and drive components. 15" Jongbloed Racing Inc. wheels and the new Avon's have put some new life back into the grip and feel of the car. Back out for some more testing next Friday. Focus is on the NASA 25 Hours of Thunderhill. We are not afraid of any R8's, SR3's, M20's, G57's, DP's or Tornados. We just need to work on sound, so we can turn the JFC-V8 loose and let the RPM's sing.

Thing looks like it should be running Pikes Peak.

[FormulaFox]

After reading the motorsports.com story(https://www.motorsport.com/endurance...series-915215/) and taking a day to absorb and think about things... I'm 100% certain the new Pescarolo is basically meant to be a Ginetta G57 competitor that's ready to drop in the Oreca-Nissan engine to take a spot on LMP3 once a current constructor drops out. The only thing that will convince me otherwise is reliable verification that the car is NOT using a P3-spec safety cell.

Why have I come to this conclusion? Three reasons...

1: The alleged one-make championship. One-make championships are a tough sell, as Caterham(SP/300.R) and Renault have both discovered in recent years. It seems strange that a newly-revived Pescarolo would try their hand on something even Renault couldn't manage. Best off just letting it run in VdeV, 24H Proto, and GT & Prototype Challenge(let's not fool ourselves, anything legal in either the GT/LMP3/PFV or Prototype VdeV championships it WILL be allowed in the GT & Prototype Challenge series) and as a track car wherever else it's legal.

2: The choice of engine. The LS3 V8 is a great choice for a project like this - big power delivered reliably. That's why Ginetta chose it for the G57, after all. But it's a bit of a strange choice for a car that...

3: ...is, according to the company, supposed to be targeted as being "in between CN and LMP3."

Sooo.... You're using the engine that heavily contributed to making the Ginetta G57 as fast as an LMP2 car, to make a car that's supposed to slip "in between" two classes that alternate between which is faster based on what track they're on, and which are rarely more than 2 seconds apart regardless?

There is no "in between" to be had with LMP3 and CN. LMP3 is supposed to be the next step up from CN, and it's only that aforementioned pace swapping that muddies the waters on that matter. Sounds to me like they're actually trying to say "this is meant for P3, but we can't get in yet" without actually saying it.

And to be frank... I hope it works out for them. I hope other manufacturers jump on this bandwagon as well and force the ACO's hand on the shortcomings of both LMP3 AND LMP2.

Doesn't hurt that the rendering is the sharpest prototype design I've seen in a long time, either.

This project may be heading towards some interesting drama, though; According to the motorsport.com article, Henri Pescarolo is NOT involved with this project and is not supportive of the use of his name for it.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

There is no "in between" to be had with LMP3 and CN. LMP3 is supposed to be the next step up from CN,

Says who? There is no hierarchy.