New to historic racing, advice please.

[eclectic]

Originally posted by eclectic
Now that I've seen it, the V8 special was a rusty death trap, poorly engineered, it killed its creator and two spectators, and I'm not giving it the chance to do the same to me!

I have been persuaded by an engineering friend that there is nothing that can't be sorted on the Mercury Special, so I have bought it.

Among other events it ran in the Ulster TT in 1953, it should get FIA papers and invites to interesting events.

It was well up with the C types when new, and vaguely resembles a Lotus 7 on steroids.

I will not post up pictures until I have it home, that may not be for several months.

Thank you one and all for patience and advice, I have always been one for following the odd and obscure and they don't come much more obscure than this!

[Chris Roden]

Good luck with it Mike.
With that and the Brazier you are going to be a busy boy!

[simon drabble]

did I see yr Stutz for sale in a mag recently? So is this a change of direction to the "relatively" modern 1953 sports racer?!

[eclectic]

Is the new Octane out then? Otherwise the Stutz was for sale in the VSCC circular.

Yes, I have decided that the Brasier will replace the Stutz, the new mystery Historic Special will be raced, and for quiet vintage pottering (actually quite noisy) my 12/50 will suffice. Everything else will be sold!

Trying to race vintage cars without total modification is very unrewarding and expensive, I have no illusions that the newly acquired Historic will not be particularly competitive, (it has relatively small brake drums, ifs, Mercury 4,250cc V8, 3 speed 'box, about 200 bhp and weighs around 17 cwt), but it will provide a lot of fun at an entry level, an no one will ever see another unless someone clones it!

It will also be a rorty, uncomfortable road car.

[Peter Mallett]

One of the mags I brought back to Ankara in May is the May issue of Retro Magazine. I've just started reading it and guess what? There's an article about an Australian guy who races a Fiat 124 Coupe. But the name is really where it stops. Its got around 400BHP at the wheels from a modified big valve twin cam headed (from Lancia Delta Integrali) turbocharged Fiat 2 litre.

Gearbox by Toyota (Supra).

Thats the first one I've heard of on a track.

[John Turner]

Mike, good luck with your V8 special. In the light of all the above comments and the reduction in your collection, I guess it must be your Type 44 that is being sold by Heartbeat Classics Ltd in August's issue of Classic Cars. Great Car and Big Bucks!

[alfasud]

Originally posted by eclectic
Yes, but was the 124 Arbath run in any international race?

Unlike the Alfa GTV of the same era, I don't think there was enough rear passanger room to be considered a touring car. It was mainly used in rallies I think. If you are looking for suitable cars that must be FIA homologated, there was a document on the FIA web site called "homologations.pdf"

It used to be located here:
http://www.fia.com/Regle/Annexe_K/homologations.PDF

But no longer.... try google to find a copy. It lists all the previously homologated vehicals and what group they were homologated.

Then decide on make (you seem to prefer Fiat/Alfa?), then drivetrain - must it be RWD, or is FWD (Alfasud, Beta Coupe?) o.k. then age etc.

[Peter Mallett]

Sorry I should have mentioned earlier that I looked for that document but as you say its gone!

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
One of the mags I brought back to Ankara in May is the May issue of Retro Magazine. I've just started reading it and guess what? There's an article about an Australian guy who races a Fiat 124 Coupe. But the name is really where it stops. Its got around 400BHP at the wheels from a modified big valve twin cam headed (from Lancia Delta Integrali) turbocharged Fiat 2 litre. Gearbox by Toyota (Supra). Thats the first one I've heard of on a track.

Peter, look 'ear:

http://www.sportssedan.com.au/index.php

Graham Smith’s Calibra/Fiat Turbo???????

[eclectic]

I tried to post a picture of the Special, but failed, it resembles a Lotus 6 after an excessive course of illegal steroids, rather like those celebrities on TV, 'Gladiators'.

Heartbeat Classics is Ivan Dutton himself now that he has handed over Ivan Dutton ltd,his former Bugatti garage, to his son Tim. He told me that the outrageous price is to allow for taking in some valueless car in part exchange and making the customer feel good about it!

Anyway, I cannot complain, the price I received was fine by me!

I still havn't sold the Bearcat though.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
Peter, look 'ear:

http://www.sportssedan.com.au/index.php

Graham Smith’s Calibra/Fiat Turbo???????

Well no, its a gent by the name of Tony Lucente. And its a highly modified 124 Coupe.

[alfasud]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
Sorry I should have mentioned earlier that I looked for that document but as you say its gone!

I've found a copy of homologations.pdf on my other PC. If anyone wants me to mail them a copy (it's only about 200kB), please send me a PM with your e-mail address.

The Fiat Abarth 124 Rally was homolgated into Group 4 (in 1974) and Group 3 (in 1974). Other Fiat 124 models have been homologated in Group 1 and 2.

If you don't mind FWD and SOHC instead of RWD and Twin Cam, the Fiat 128 in either Berlina or Coupe bodywork would be an interesting option.

http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...71%20Cars.html
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...72%20Cars.html

Depending on the ruled you race under, you might be able to upgrade to the 1500cc X1/9 or Fiat Uno SOHC engine.

As with any Fiat, Lancia or Alfa, often the hard part is finding a good rust free example to form the basis of the race car project.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by eclectic
I have been persuaded by an engineering friend that there is nothing that can't be sorted on the Mercury Special, so I have bought it.

Among other events it ran in the Ulster TT in 1953, it should get FIA papers and invites to interesting events.

It was well up with the C types when new, and vaguely resembles a Lotus 7 on steroids.

After some (accidental) research I believe we are talking about the Joe Quinn SAM (Special Austin Mercury) that competed at the Curragh, Wicklow and Dundrod in the 50's until the tragedy you mention in 1954.

[eclectic]

Got it in one!

It is a rusty wreck, but can be rebuilt, the original welded tubular frame that held the body panels will be replaced with a properly designed FIA cage so that I will have some protection and wear full harness belts. I have no intention or replicating its final race. Mind you proper run off areas and Armco make that less likely.

[Peter Mallett]

Although I don't like it on a historic racer, I suggest a rollover bar behind the driver too. (A la Cobra).

Good luck with it.

When do you plan to debut it?

[eclectic]

Yes, that was the plan. Especially in view of the car's history.

Where did you find reference to it?

Debut, maybe next summer, any suggestions?

The car has belonged to a friend of mine for about 20 years and finally he has persuaded me that it is my sort of project.

[Peter Mallett]

Classic and Sportscar May 2004, "Lost and Found" page 22.

One of those mags I brought back from the UK. Your references prompted me to look again.

And your analogy vis a vis the Lotus 7 is a good one. Can you fit some wider wheels?

[eclectic]

Ah yes, my friend had a barn discovery type article to raise some interest,. Rim widths? I will have to get it FIA papers, any advice as to how to go about getting them and a vaguely competitive car at the same time, an e-mail would be welcome!

How come Jaguar C types with FIA papers for example, are supposed to be to original specs but go so well today?

[zefarelly]

Originally posted by eclectic
How come Jaguar C types with FIA papers for example, are supposed to be to original specs but go so well today?

quality of engineering and engine build . . .and possibly a little 'flexing' of the rules ?

[eclectic]

What in Tarnation!

I just spent today collecting an Austin Devon A40 circa 1950, sound, complete but mostly dismantled. bought on Ebay for £217. This is for spares for the S.A.M.

If you know anyone with a penchant for such pedestrian cars, there will be lots of bits going free to anyone who wants to save them from the skip!

The body would be great grafted onto somebody's ideal chassis as a hot rod.