fia f4 discussion (merged)

[EastonNeston]

I'm sure the teams in Protyre Formula Renault would say they are running in a professional manner, the top teams are miles ahead of the F Ford paddock for presentation & attention to detail.

[BtccLee]

News at 10:45 tomorrow...

I am going to be bold and predict a surprise or two when the news comes, especially regarding where this series ends up...

[BtccLee]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108552

From Autosport. It sounds like the series will be entirely new when it comes to the UK.

As the article concludes: "Whichever way you slice it, it looks as though the junior battleground is set to get messy again. And there are bound to be a few casualties..."

So, surely it will join a a high profile package in the UK, so may be British GT???

It is almost certainly the end of Formula Ford and maybe it could harm another series too, maybe Formula Renault BARC...

[FFmygale]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108552

From Autosport. It sounds like the series will be entirely new when it comes to the UK.

As the article concludes: "Whichever way you slice it, it looks as though the junior battleground is set to get messy again. And there are bound to be a few casualties..."

So, surely it will join a a high profile package in the UK, so may be British GT???

It is almost certainly the end of Formula Ford and maybe it could harm another series too, maybe Formula Renault BARC...

How does this tie in with some of your previous comments in the Formula Ford topic?.... such as:

"The future: The news of Formula Renault 1.6 has lead some to suggest Formula Fords days are numbered. However, with how that series is being placed at the bottom of the ladder and with Formula Ford positioned at the top of national level racing I doubt the effect the new series will have on Formula Ford. We will see if drivers progress from Renault BARC and BRDC F4 and how grids grow the second half of this year and next year..."

[EastonNeston]

Protyre F Renault will continue next season, but with a shift of emphasis to be a lower level 'clubbie' series again, giving the currently uncompetitive teams a chance of winning races as the professional teams like MGR, Fortec & Hillspeed are unlikely to be involved having moved onto new projects.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

It is almost certainly the end of Formula Ford and maybe it could harm another series too, maybe Formula Renault BARC...

I think Formula Renault BARC, as a championship, has potential to continue. The reason for this is that it could always revert to a club focussed series as it was up until a couple of seasons ago, where the majority of drivers were amateurs, that would joined by a relatively small number of career minded drivers (that were generally lacking in finance).

[BtccLee]

Originally Posted by FFmygale

How does this tie in with some of your previous comments in the Formula Ford topic?.... such as:

"The future: The news of Formula Renault 1.6 has lead some to suggest Formula Fords days are numbered. However, with how that series is being placed at the bottom of the ladder and with Formula Ford positioned at the top of national level racing I doubt the effect the new series will have on Formula Ford. We will see if drivers progress from Renault BARC and BRDC F4 and how grids grow the second half of this year and next year..."

I believe I made those comments a while ago, when I said I would wait until this stage into the season to judge the series. I have perhaps been naïve but now have to conceded Formula Ford is on very thin ice going into 2014. The announcement of Formula Renault 1.6 UK and FIA F4 are almost certainly going to take drivers away as they should be cheaper and with the FIA series at least, may be considered more prestigious. I agree with what has been said about Formula Renault BARC, both Renault and the BARC should be applauded for keeping the brand in UK Motorsport by supporting the club series when 2.0 litre collapsed. This has allowed the launch of 1.6 litre next year and it will be easy for the BARC series to slip silently back to a club series, having been probably the most prominent UK single-seater championship for over a year. Whether FIA F4 has a negative affect on BRDC F4 remains to be seen. Also, surely unless the re-launched series can place its self significantly above these lower categories but below FIA Formula 3, then a return for Formula Renault 2.0UK looks slightly more tricky now? There remains still a couple of questions for FIA F4 though. Firstly who will run it? Secondly, as I imagine it won’t be a standalone series, which package will it join? What about engines, I believe they will be 1.6’s but from where? Chassis, if the series turns about to be all new will a range of chassis be available for season one, or will it start with one? And finally is it a definite the FIA won’t take what would appear to be a more logical route and picky back Formula Renault 1.6 in the UK? I find it somewhat ironic though that a couple of series with a similar ethos to original Formula Ford could well lead to it’s demise. We will see…

[brakedisc]

I have seen it mentioned on many of the other threads and here are the details for those of you who have not seen it.

[BtccLee]

Originally Posted by brakedisc

I have seen it mentioned on many of the other threads and here are the details for those of you who have not seen it.

There is already an FIA F4 thread however, discussion has been spread across a lot of threads so it may be good to collect it all here...


Here's the story so far:


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106219


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108552


http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109217




And the FIA list: http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/basicpage/file/FIIII_plaquette_full_formula4.pdf


Basically, right now it is likely that Formula Ford in the UK will become FIA F4 in the UK. Ford would like to start in 2015 and there are one or two other points ( engines) still being debated. Formula Renault are launching a 1.6litre series in the UK and were in talks with the FIA. However, both parties had points of contention and then Renault stuck the boot in by saying the FIA's proposed costs were flawed...

[brakedisc]

" I have seen it mentioned on many of the other threads and here are the details for those of you who have not seen it. "

My post should have had this attached.

http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...l_formula4.pdf

Thanks BTCC Lee for putting the link up.

It is worth reading because it gives a great insight as to how the FIA think.

[BtccLee]

We will know at the end of this month if Formula Ford is to become FIA F4. Sinter aren't happy and neither are Ray who have apparently spent £70000 on a chassis. Series will use Mygales with EcoBoost engine whilst also running a Class B in 2015 if Ford get there wish. Frankly I can't see Ford have another option but how do they appease the unhappy parties which are actually a minor ( in terms of size) part of the grid...

[BtccLee]

Is there any news of Ford closing the deal with the FIA or is it still in the balance until the end of the month...

[andrewc]

The MSA have published a request to tender for a company to organise and promote the "MSA British Formula Four Championship certified by the FIA" for a 3 yr period starting from 01.01.15 for three years.

You've got a month to get your business plan in...

[BtccLee]

[QUOTE=andrewc;3308815]The MSA have published a request to tender for a company to organise and promote the "MSA British Formula Four Championship certified by the FIA" for a 3 yr period starting from 01.01.15 for three years.


This is about to get interesting. Surely Ford have an advantage, they are already an MSA championship and the 2015 date basically is what they wanted...

[BtccLee]

Ford may not have any preference from the MSA but the concept FIA F4 in the UK suits them. They are now allowed turbo engines, the series won't start until 2015 and will be single-make initially.

Also, the BTCC support slot gives them a key support place for a main national event.

So who will be the rivals. Renault have fallen out with the FIA a bit and I understand teams would rather have got on the BTCC support bill (I did read that certainly, cant remember where). But who else. Maybe a whole new series?

Deadline is the 25/10/13 for applications. I imagine a late November early December announcement. Now, we wait...

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

Ford may not have any preference from the MSA but the concept FIA F4 in the UK suits them. They are now allowed turbo engines, the series won't start until 2015 and will be single-make initially.

Also, the BTCC support slot gives them a key support place for a main national event.

They only have that slot until the end of 2014 though.

[chris bailey]

I know I'm probably being nostalgic, but who remembers FF1600 in the late 70's and early 80's? Chassis from Van Diemen, Royale, Dulon, Merlyn, Image, Hawke, Reynard, Lola, Getem, Sark..... 3 heats and a final at most Silverstone Brush Fusegear rounds on the Club circuit. Entries running to 80+ cars as a regular thing!

Then along comes Vauxhall and Vauxhall Junior, Formula BMW, Formula Renault, F2000 (remember that?) and Formula First. All one-make, ostensibly low-cost. All distant memories once the vested interests involved had milked them to death and run off with the proceeds. Along the way, they led to the decline of FF1600 and to the half-baked replacement FF solutions, culminating in the current bonkers version.

Motor racing is populated by self-absorbed egotists whose concern for the greater good is non-existent. The possible exception to this rule is Jonathan Palmer. Sure, he has vested interests, but his F4 solution, as is the case with more or less everything else he's ever created, tries very hard to be affordable in the real sense. He was practically forced into creating F4 after the dismal decline of FF.

What really annoys me in all this is that there is an opportunity for a major manufacturer like Renault or Ford to really get behind their offering and make it truly affordable. They can browbeat their tyre suppliers into subsidising a number of sets of rubber across the season. Likewise, their fuel and oil partners. They have the clout to really bear down on running costs. The car should be wingless, aluminium monocoque (cheapest to volume produce) and use road tyres. It also should use an engine of no more than 1.0 litres to promote their green credentials. The chassis choice should be open to promote competition and introduce variety.

Oh dear! Have I just re-defined FF1600 for the 21st Century!? Heavens above! A car that you could run yourself off the back of a trailer with just your best mate/dad to help out. Now that's going to get right up the noses of all those other vested interests that want to charge £100k a year to "run you professionally".

Not going to happen, is it....?

[BtccLee]

I don't know if I have read this right but it may be that no matter what series becomes FIA F4, it will be a BTCC support in 2015...

[BtccLee]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

I don't know if I have read this right but it may be that no matter what series becomes FIA F4, it will be a BTCC support in 2015...

No that wasn't being suggested. However, I have got a response to a question about those applying for the tender from "@RacecarEngineer:No 'series' but I know of at least 3 other groups interested in the tender. The suggested Ford 2 class structure does not comply"


Ford we know will/ have applied though...

[BtccLee]

Does anyone know if the UK tender process will be delayed after Jonathan Palmer's suggestions in this weeks Autospprt saying that it would be difficult to apply with no cars properly homologated for the series until next year? Also saying MSV would be interested in the series...

[BtccLee]

Only a week and a bit left to file for the FIA F4 UK tender. Anyone know which groups have applied...

[BtccLee]

It's not just a name change. It is a fundamental rethink of junior single seater racing at an international level. A universal rule set that will finally align junior single seater racing. For Ford the morph is key as it would undercut current Formula Ford UK in terms of cost significantly. I believe it may be more than BRDC F4.

The key is the teams and the drivers will go to the FIA series, in theory, due to the structure, regulations and cost.


For me it is not a question of whether it will work, it's who will work it???


Also: Have any parties come forward to confirm or deny they have applied for the FIA F4 UK tender???

[EastonNeston]

I believe the regulations of the tender process restrict the public statements that tendering parties can make until the final decision is made.

[BtccLee]

Right I have now read an article that indicates the tender process will not end until December 6th. Now I am sure this contradicts the original announcement but it is an MSA website story...

So the wait continues...

[BtccLee]

This is perhaps a silly question but how would a prospective change of Formula Ford into FIA F4 ( I know there are other tender parties but this is only applicable to Ford) affect their contract with TOCA which is until the end if 2015...