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Old 7 Sep 2014, 08:25 (Ref:3450930)   #1
Jacal
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F4 Australia 2015

Not sure if this belongs here, MODS feel free to move it

You may have heard CAMS is intending to introduce the FIA Formula 4 category into Australian Motorsport in 2015.

There is very limited information being made available by CAMS as to how the introduction of the category will be funded. The recent CAMS questionnaire on Formula 4 suggested that CAMS would own the racecars and possibly cover the operation of the championship. Conservative estimates from within motorsport suggest that an investment of millions would be required.

Each licence holder and car club should assess if they are satisfied with the approach CAMS is taking with the introduction of the Formula 4 category into the circuit racing discipline.

In 2013 the CAMS licence holders were
Circuit 16%
Rally 14%
Off Road 5%
General 65%

Given that this potentially significant investment will be allocated to a small percentage of the CAMS members, licence holders or car clubs should contact CAMS as soon as possible to indicate their support or otherwise of CAMS’ approach or to request specific information from CAMS to satisfy any concerns they may have.

CAMS contact details as on the CAMS website www.cams.com.au, contact your local office or more directly contact the CAMS board representative or State Council Chairman in your state
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Old 7 Sep 2014, 23:48 (Ref:3451134)   #2
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You would like to think that if CAMS were to be the substantial owner of the F4 chassis and powerplants, if indeed that is their intention, that there is a commercial business case somewhere that details the costs, the benefits, the risks and indeed the opportunities that this path might bring to them.

As ever though, the answer to a class not seen as 'working' seems to be to put another class together, to try and bring new dollars into the sport... except it renders the cars of previously supported series virtually worthless, or at least much reduced in value... so they cant/are discouraged to invest

It would be interesting of the licence fees for all CAMS activities were to increase by x% in order to somehow jump into the commercial space...
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Old 8 Sep 2014, 01:08 (Ref:3451143)   #3
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Wouldn't this be the equivalent of ASIC opening a new Bank/Insurance Company ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by CAMS Website
Our Core Purpose:

To be a regulator and FIA-delegated authority.....
http://www.cams.com.au/about/about-c...r-core-purpose

Was nothing learn't from the New Zealand debacle, resulting from the Regulator being involved as a (part?) category owner/promoter?
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Old 8 Sep 2014, 01:23 (Ref:3451147)   #4
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Sure, but CAMS has a commercial arm in the old days with the AMSF.. where a number of high nt worth individuals enjoyed sharing their financial largesse to achieve significant taxation allowances, as well as furthering the racing careers of various supported pilots...

CAMS does not seem to have a commercial business model other than to charge fees to be a member of the local FIA ASN group. They had the opportunity to be a part of the success of V8Supercar til cold feet prevailed...
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Old 8 Sep 2014, 22:24 (Ref:3451351)   #5
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I don't think CAMS owning the chassis was ever on the table. The only models I've ever seen put forth involved the operator or the competitors owning the cars.
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Old 8 Sep 2014, 22:32 (Ref:3451353)   #6
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Have any competitors put a deposit down?
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Old 9 Sep 2014, 02:15 (Ref:3451384)   #7
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"I don't think CAMS owning the chassis was ever on the table. The only models I've ever seen put forth involved the operator or the competitors owning the cars."

That's certainly the way it was done in the past but it could be that the conditions of operating F4 weren't financially viable for a commercial organisation. Nobody would fund and organise a competition without some expectation of covering costs and returning a profit - even a small one. So CAMS may feel they need to fund it, at least at the beginning, which could upset some of the many CAMS members?
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Old 9 Sep 2014, 09:53 (Ref:3451439)   #8
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If this is the course being considered then I can only presume that the call for expressions of interest that went out a couple of months ago wasn't a success.

Even so it would seem a contradiction to consider buying the cars when in the not too distant past it was too expensive and not in its remit for cams to administer categories.

Would this proposal mean cams owns the cars but let someone else administer the category and then who makes the money out of the deal,
or
do they own the cars and run the category, in which case is it doomed like all the others that tried owning the cars and then running them themselves, Who remembers daewoo, mg, lasers, Suzuki swift versions 1 and 2, colt, future tourers, was there a lotus series as well all of which presumably didn't make enough money to sustain them. So do the members keep paying?
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Old 9 Sep 2014, 13:53 (Ref:3451520)   #9
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So if Formula 4 doesn't answer the bell next year, would CAMS eat humble pie and get back behind Formula Ford again?

This whole thing has been awfully managed on CAMS behalf.
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Old 9 Sep 2014, 23:43 (Ref:3451666)   #10
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I have no idea which way it will go but there is apparently some news on this coming up very soon.
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Old 10 Sep 2014, 11:13 (Ref:3451792)   #11
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Originally Posted by one five five View Post
So if Formula 4 doesn't answer the bell next year, would CAMS eat humble pie and get back behind Formula Ford again?

This whole thing has been awfully managed on CAMS behalf.
Formula Ford in the UK is moving to F4 regulations anyway.

What will happen is if F4 takes off it will likely pick up the slack from the end of Australian F3 and Formula Ford.

As long as they keep F4 costs reasonably low the series should gets strong grids in Australia, and provide the main launch pad for Aus/NZ drivers to make it to europe.
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Old 10 Sep 2014, 12:05 (Ref:3451806)   #12
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Originally Posted by Aguri View Post
What will happen is if F4 takes off it will likely pick up the slack from the end of Australian F3 and Formula Ford.

As long as they keep F4 costs reasonably low the series should gets strong grids in Australia, and provide the main launch pad for Aus/NZ drivers to make it to europe.
Where is the evidence that F4 will do a better job than what is/was currently on offer? We are three months off 2015 and bugger all has been spoken about F4 since the launch.

Wasn't F3 supposed to do all the things you mention when it took over the Gold Star?
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Old 10 Sep 2014, 13:03 (Ref:3451819)   #13
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Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Where is the evidence that F4 will do a better job than what is/was currently on offer? We are three months off 2015 and bugger all has been spoken about F4 since the launch.

Wasn't F3 supposed to do all the things you mention when it took over the Gold Star?
What is currently on offer?

A formula 3 series that is potentially unsustainable and could be dead in a season or two and a formula ford series that is no longer supported abroad?

It seems to me like CAMS had to choose between going down this route or not having a decent (by international standards) single seat series in the country at all.

Club racers will still race with old spec formula fords and have a great time, and there is still a huge community that supports the class in the UK as well. But the next Ricciardo, Webber or Power won't cut their teeth in the class like in the past.
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Old 17 Sep 2014, 10:33 (Ref:3454270)   #14
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Sounds like CAMS are in the car owning business now Here

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Old 17 Sep 2014, 10:55 (Ref:3454276)   #15
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And 7 rounds on the V8SC roster Here
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