[BTCC] Round 7,8 and 9 Thruxton 2018

[Matt K]

This is why I think it's high time Jason left. He's in his fifties and won't be racing forever. He either lacks motivation or just isn't that strong anymore. Oulton Park and Croft will be important to see whether Subaru can challenge for wins and if yes, whether Plato can be somewhere up there as well.

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by Matt K

This is why I think it's high time Jason left. He's in his fifties and won't be racing forever. He either lacks motivation or just isn't that strong anymore. Oulton Park and Croft will be important to see whether Subaru can challenge for wins and if yes, whether Plato can be somewhere up there as well.

Matt Neal is in his fifties as well (actually older than Plato) and he won yesterday. I just can't see that the two of them have drifted that apart in ability as they've aged. There is something else going on with the way the car works for Plato or Sutton really is the best touring car driver out there by a margin.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by AdrianM

Matt Neal is in his fifties as well (actually older than Plato) and he won yesterday. I just can't see that the two of them have drifted that apart in ability as they've aged. There is something else going on with the way the car works for Plato or Sutton really is the best touring car driver out there by a margin.

Yes, being 50 doesn't suddenly mean you are slow. Neal isn't the only example, look at what Rob Collard is achieving: finishing top five in the championship year after year.

The comment about Swindon engines being cheaper is only part of the truth. I'm sure Swindon are cheaper, but Mountune wouldn't have supplied the team again after not being paid last season. (The debt was eventually settled but was months overdue).

[porsche962fan]

meanwhile we have complete surreal standings , except Neal and Turks the old guard is nowhere , Shedden left the series, Mat Jackson got the boot, Plato is essentially irrelevant, Collard and Jordan had poor season so far ...

Morgan 96
Cook 95
Ingram 85
Goff 83
Turkington 78
Neal 68
Proctor 62
Cammish 62
Sutton 55
Smiley 48


and Power Maxed are leading the team standings

[Alfisti]

I think one of JPs issues is Carl Faux having moved on: and yes, this covers last year too as Carl was overseeing the BMR shop last year rather than mostly 1 to 1 with JP as they had been for many years. Seperate a driver and engineer pairing and the driver can be lost in the wilderness. However, even if this is a factor it's not the full story by any stretch.

[steve_r]

It's great to see the table looking like that. Are the top 4 in the championship going to be consistent enough to win the title?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

This comment interests me - what leads you to say that the engine is cheaper?

During the end of show round-up on ITV, Tim Harvey mentioned that the switch of engine suppliers was to save money.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by redshoes

During the end of show round-up on ITV, Tim Harvey mentioned that the switch of engine suppliers was to save money.

if thats true then the team deserve what theyve got.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by redshoes

During the end of show round-up on ITV, Tim Harvey mentioned that the switch of engine suppliers was to save money.

Thanks - hadn't caught that.

I understand the need to look for cost-saving measures at all times, in even the most affluent of teams. It just seems a bit unexpected to look for ways to change a title-winning package unless the financial situation forced them to find a cheaper option.

In hindsight, given that the CoG advantage of the Boxer has been eliminated, it makes you wonder why they didn't just put the normal Swindon unit in for the cheapest of all options? Do the owners of the chassis mandate that a Subaru unit must be installed?

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by sceptic

Yes, being 50 doesn't suddenly mean you are slow. Neal isn't the only example, look at what Rob Collard is achieving: finishing top five in the championship year after year.

Well yes but is Neal the same person as Plato? Some run out of steam at the age of 40 and others could drive forever (I think it will be the case with Tarquini). But my point is, this is not 50+ championship and as much as we love 'legends' and old hands in the championship, I think the time for retirement finally comes for everybody and with miserable results, not big prospects and being in the 50s, I believe this is the right moment to leave for JP.

Collard is seemingly struggling this year being unable to leave an impact but maybe that'll change. However, I'd rather see his son in the second WSR BMW.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Well yes but is Neal the same person as Plato?

I feel one factor that needs to be considered here is the relationship between the driver(s) and their teams.

Plato takes his talent to differing teams, along with a chunk of sponsorship money, in the hope of getting a car that can win in return. He has little personal interest in the long-term prospects of the team - or his teammates. This was evident in his previous comments about preferring a win bonus to seeing Sutton win races. (not criticising, it's a refreshing honesty).

Neal on the other hand, is effectively driving for his family team. The family business(es) bring money to the team, and allow him to fulfil his passion for racing. This carries over to the Mini team that his sons race for too.


There's a reason why Plato has driven for multiple teams, in multiple marques since 2004, whereas over the same period Neal has been TD/Honda exclusively, aside from 2yrs in the Vauxhall.

I get the impression that Neal is working on assisting Cammish in developing the new Civic to be the best on the grid, and is almost as happy to see Cammish get results. Whereas Plato is only interested in his own personal results, and would happily move to another team if it suited him.

[luckn002]

Interesting to note too that so far R2 winners have started P27, P14 and P9 on the grid (or something close to that).

Strangely 4 of the 6 other winners have come from pole!

[S griffin]

Yes, but one r2 was a lottery, the other two went to the fastest car. I think nothing is wrong about that, I think we could see similar results without ballest

[RS67]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Scoobys looked nowhere. Why did they gamble on a cheaper engine.

Gamble? More like necessity. They had to find someone to look after the engines. Now they are running less power because of crankshaft issues. Unlikely to be that much cheaper by the end of the season and I can envisage drivers having more engine changes before the season is through.

[S griffin]

I think they could have kept their previous engine. Having a few problems, but will hopefully will be a bit further up in time

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I understand the need to look for cost-saving measures at all times, in even the most affluent of teams. It just seems a bit unexpected to look for ways to change a title-winning package unless the financial situation forced them to find a cheaper option

That's assuming a) the stated reason is true, and b) they had a choice in the matter.

Wouldn't be the first time the PR machine has put out something that isn't entire the full story.

[S griffin]

I can see no other reason, maybe they did need to make a change though. But is there any benefit to hide behind the truth?

[BobJones]

Originally Posted by AdrianM

or Sutton really is the best touring car driver out there by a margin.

He is.

[BobJones]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

meanwhile we have complete surreal standings , except Neal and Turks the old guard is nowhere , Shedden left the series, Mat Jackson got the boot, Plato is essentially irrelevant, Collard and Jordan had poor season so far ...

Morgan 96
Cook 95
Ingram 85
Goff 83
Turkington 78
Neal 68
Proctor 62
Cammish 62
Sutton 55
Smiley 48


and Power Maxed are leading the team standings

This is exciting.

For too long the "old guard" has sapped attention away from the real quality. Long may the 'new' faces reign.

[BobJones]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

GT racing as the Pro driver coaching the Am. A lot of drivers do that in Pro-Am GT class racing.

Plato isn't fit enough to do more than 30 laps...

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by AdrianM

Why would someone put him in an FWD car? Would you expect Mercedes to put other F1 drivers in their car to show that they could win as well as Hamilton?

That's a completely reversed analogy? Mercedes aren't struggling like BMR are. It's more like Red Bull opting to put Alonso in the car because he's unhappy with McLaren. And that's a completely realistic scenario.

If Jason is such the catch everyone seems to make out he is, then why isn't he in another car? What's stopping any other team on the grid giving him a drive?

I just don't get what it is about Jason. We keep hearing it's everything but his fault. CoG, chassis, weight and now engine. We've run through everything in the vehicle at this point. Now it seems that retiring is an option before another car? If retiring is an option before attempting a drive at another team, then maybe it's time to start investigating issues beyond the car.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I can see no other reason, maybe they did need to make a change though. But is there any benefit to hide behind the truth?

I daresay someone has asked them the question and they had to supply a diplomatic answer that wouldn't have made them look bad if they had told the truth.

[peebee2]

What could they do when the previous supplier declined to work with them again? They were lucky anyone would, and probably had to pay up front.

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

If Jason is such the catch everyone seems to make out he is, then why isn't he in another car? What's stopping any other team on the grid giving him a drive?

Why would they? They've all got drivers already. Not saying he's a great catch and is worth breaking a contract with another driver for but, IMO, he's far from the spent force many reckon he is.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by AdrianM

Why would they? They've all got drivers already. Not saying he's a great catch and is worth breaking a contract with another driver for but, IMO, he's far from the spent force many reckon he is.

Well, he's an ex-champion that people (apparently) still rate up with the likes of Nel (who can still challenge for titles) and such a media darling that they feel the need to give him a mention even when he's currently the least relevant driver on the grid. He's surely worth something to a number of the teams?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm asking the question - we've cycled through almost every bit of the car that could possibly be the issue and we're still sitting with Jason being bottom of the table with the excuse of "We just need to fix the indicator stalk now and he'll be fine". It's been suggested he would do better in a FWD car, and I'm sure some of the teams on the grid would love to put him in the car. So if that's the apparent fix, then why are we talking about retirement rather than a move to a platform that would suit him better?