[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[Bentley03]

Goodness, what a hoohah!

I'm amazed this matters so much to some people. Am I excited by this? Not really. Will I enjoy watching this thing monstering a circuit if I happen to be trackside at the time? Too right I will. It's something and nothing, I can take it or leave it.

If they were to take it to Pikes Peak, I think I'd be more interested.

[Spyderman]

It is after all, the seventieth anniversary of Porsche. A make that is synonymous to sports car racing and currently has no entry in its' top class : On the surface this looks to be a PR celebratory exercise....but is it just that?

We know that Porsche continued work (after leaving WEC) on their new engine (because it was clear that they needed a new engine to remain competitive). We know that they decided to realign their motorsport program with their future product portfolio (thus their interest in Duracell racing).

It is clear that this car is quite developed from the "normal" 919 (at least in aero terms).

To me the interesting question is whether they are "testing" future components (not sure for what purpose or for a purpose not yet disclosed) under the guise of a PR stunt.

If not, it seems to me to be an expensive PR stunt.

[BertMk2]

Porsche did demo laps with a 919 at a Brands Hatch BTCC meeting - it went out a couple of times and did 'high speed demo' laps. Awesome. That's the only word for it. Great idea I though. They've done it a few time with F1 cars in the past as well - something interesting to throw out on the circuit when there's nothing else going on.

In my opinion it's good to see these things out and being used - things like demos at other race meets, trips up the hill at the Festival Of Speed and similar events are a good way of showing off cars from a brands past and generating interest. I'd like to see more manufacturers doing the same to be honest.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Porsche did demo laps with a 919 at a Brands Hatch BTCC meeting - it went out a couple of times and did 'high speed demo' laps. Awesome. That's the only word for it. Great idea I though. They've done it a few time with F1 cars in the past as well - something interesting to throw out on the circuit when there's nothing else going on.

In my opinion it's good to see these things out and being used - things like demos at other race meets, trips up the hill at the Festival Of Speed and similar events are a good way of showing off cars from a brands past and generating interest. I'd like to see more manufacturers doing the same to be honest.

I agree...but why then spend a fortune upgrading the car? These things are not cheap.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I agree...but why then spend a fortune upgrading the car? These things are not cheap.

A fortune in our terms, likely peanuts compared to a full season budget. Especially on the power unit side, I'm guessing it can't have been complicated or that expensive to remap in order to simply remove the output restrictions in the regs.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

A fortune in our terms, likely peanuts compared to a full season budget. Especially on the power unit side, I'm guessing it can't have been complicated or that expensive to remap in order to simply remove the output restrictions in the regs.

Aero development is very expensive ...by anyone's terms. I suspect that the rumored 1200 BHP that this car is producing is being aided by some rather interesting electric development.

Incidentally - Neel Jani says it it the fastest car he has ever driven.

[Victor_RO]

First reported laptime, 1:41.770.

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/1-4...-hybrid-a-spa/

For comparison, fastest F1 lap last year (Q3) was 1:42.553. And pretty sure they won't be stopping here, this laptime is nearly certain to be beaten at this year's GP.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

First reported laptime, 1:41.770.

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/1-4...-hybrid-a-spa/

For comparison, fastest F1 lap last year (Q3) was 1:42.553. And pretty sure they won't be stopping here, this laptime is nearly certain to be beaten at this year's GP.

Thanks!

I reached out to one of my usual sources and it seems that this is just a PR stunt.

[chernaudi]

IMO, this is a 70th Anniversary PR deal. But it's better than Porsche sitting by and doing nothing aside from GT racing, and probably costs a very small (to them) fraction of a full WEC season.

[crooky]

I can’t believe all you old codgers are complaining about this! Sure it’s a shame they’re no longer racing but that decision is done and dusted. Look forward and you’ll see that Porsche have created what appears to be the worlds fastest racing car. An awesome piece of OTT engineering that will seemingly redefine how fast we think cars can go.

I’m seriously hoping this mad machine turns up to one of the race meetings I’m attending this year. The thought of it going through Maggots and Becketts at Silverstone or Hawthorn and Westfield at Brands Hatch is mouth watering to say the least.

[RedSquirrel]

I was thinking about the tracks Porsche will visit. Spa obviously. Probably Silverstone. Maybe Monza to get the highest ever average speed on a road course as our American friends would call it. Maybe Sebring? No idea where else.
I very much doubt they'll go anywhere near the Nordschleife. This car is far too fast for that track. GT3 cars can go around in about 6:3x and a GTE would likely be a little bit quicker. They could get pretty close to Bellof's time just by taking 100kg out of the RSR and slapping on some special tyres.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by RedSquirrel

I was thinking about the tracks Porsche will visit. Spa obviously. Probably Silverstone. Maybe Monza to get the highest ever average speed on a road course as our American friends would call it. Maybe Sebring? No idea where else.
I very much doubt they'll go anywhere near the Nordschleife. This car is far too fast for that track. GT3 cars can go around in about 6:3x and a GTE would likely be a little bit quicker. They could get pretty close to Bellof's time just by taking 100kg out of the RSR and slapping on some special tyres.

I would love to see it run on the Circuit de la Sarthe.

[Victor_RO]

Official press release:

https://presse.porsche.de/prod/press...otorsport-news

[RedSquirrel]

Wow! 53% more downforce than a normal 919.
And they're taking it to the Nurburgring, Goodwood, Brands Hatch and Laguna Seca. Intersting choices.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by RedSquirrel

Wow! 53% more downforce than a normal 919.

53% more downforce for 66% more efficiency. So they've basically piled on downforce with no additional drag penalty.

[canaglia]

just give us an onboard with telemetry

[Irie]

I must say I'm a bit bitter about this. They commited to 2018 and worked on the (now canned?) new regulations. And after they pull out they develop the car and go for so called records. If they stayed they would have the opptunity to spend not as much money as before, maybe reduce it to Toyotas level. But instead they pull out and join the much cheaper Formula E PR festival and while doing this bring the whole WEC into turmoil. And now they spend money to develop the car, run it and rent the tracks for the demo runs.

[Spyderman]

360 BHP/Lt from the ICE isn't bad either.

[TF110]

This shows the potential lmp1 has without being artificially slowed by the rules to preserve F1's "fastest" claim. The car is still 849kg. There's a bigger rear wing and front diffuser, it has drs systems front and rear (like f1), the hybrid boost isn't restricted to 6mj, but 8.49mj per lap. The output isn't even that big of a difference- 440hp from the hybrid. The engine isn't making phenomenal power like 1000+, but still not shabby, 700+hp. The drivers admit that the budget is small and they basically added some go-fast things while relaxing the fuel flow and ers boost amount. Just this 'little' amount of work and they beat f1's record.

I might not like that they're doing this instead of the wec, but it definitely shows what-if the lmp1's weren't cut back so often just how fast they'd be.

[JoeW04]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Goodness, what a hoohah!

I'm amazed this matters so much to some people. Am I excited by this? Not really. Will I enjoy watching this thing monstering a circuit if I happen to be trackside at the time? Too right I will. It's something and nothing, I can take it or leave it.

If they were to take it to Pikes Peak, I think I'd be more interested.

Fully agree, what else was there left to be achieved? The budget of doing this would be minuscule compared to a year of WEC & sadly probably the same amount of exsposure was achieved

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by Irie

I must say I'm a bit bitter about this. They commited to 2018 and worked on the (now canned?) new regulations. And after they pull out they develop the car and go for so called records. If they stayed they would have the opptunity to spend not as much money as before, maybe reduce it to Toyotas level. But instead they pull out and join the much cheaper Formula E PR festival and while doing this bring the whole WEC into turmoil. And now they spend money to develop the car, run it and rent the tracks for the demo runs.

Manufacturers are interested in future customers. FE has big growth in under 35's and especially under 25's. WEC doesn't. The same age group will be interested in the records and demos as well.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

360 BHP/Lt from the ICE isn't bad either.

Actually quite disappointing to me; I was sure that toyota and porsche ICE reached about the same thermal efficiency of mercedes and ferrari F1 ICE, but it doesn't seem so.

At 100kg/h fuel flow rate, mercedes and ferrari ICE are in a 800hp range, and basically must have an endurance like lifespan mileage. God only knows what power could those ICE release at 15000rpm without any fuel flow restriction.... something to shame old 3L V10

[crooky]

https://youtu.be/AyWkj3yvfWs

Check out the ridiculous traction and acceleration!

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by TF110

I might not like that they're doing this instead of the wec, but it definitely shows what-if the lmp1's weren't cut back so often just how fast they'd be.

But by the same token, what could F1 cars do if they were allowed to make the same sort of "small" tweaks outside of their regulations? I understand the appeal in seeing how far the technology can go, but to me it's dishonest for Porsche to brag about how much faster their unrestricted (LMP1) car is versus a restricted (F1) car. But they've done it anyway because they know the glorified time attacks will get the clicks and likes.

Putting my own feelings aside, I do hope the engineers feel like this is worthwhile - they are the ones that have been shafted the most.

Edit - I don't want to put anymore of my negativity in this thread (it's not fair on those of you who are interested), so please PM me if you want to respond.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by J Jay

But by the same token, what could F1 cars do if they were allowed to make the same sort of "small" tweaks outside of their regulations? I understand the appeal in seeing how far the technology can go, but to me it's dishonest for Porsche to brag about how much faster their unrestricted (LMP1) car is versus a restricted (F1) car. But they've done it anyway because they know the glorified time attacks will get the clicks and likes.

Putting my own feelings aside, I do hope the engineers feel like this is worthwhile - they are the ones that have been shafted the most.

Edit - I don't want to put anymore of my negativity in this thread (it's not fair on those of you who are interested), so please PM me if you want to respond.

The F1 cars were sped up last year by the regulations. They're supposed to be the fastest formula cars ever, and they are. Porsche gets some leftover money, puts some new wings and stuff on the car and cuts the fuel flow restrictions and beats the new f1's. The drivers say it themselves, it's not a full fledged factory backed project. It has their blessing, but it's the team given some of the money that was for this year to give the 919 some go-fast parts. The facts remain that it's outside the rules, but they're not racing anyone so they don't need to follow rules to break records.

My point is that it didn't take years and some super technology to do this. It's added some aero and took out a little weight, did away with the lift and coast (F1 doesn't have that during qualifying) and run 2mj more hybrid per lap. This shows that lmp1's are severely restricted in their current guise. If they were left alone from 2015 they would probably be approaching f1 levels I'm trying to say that with this little project, Porsche has shown that F1's label of the fastest is being protected by the rule makers. That's fine, they want it to be the pinnacle of motorsport. I like that Porsche has done this at least and shown that title can be challenged. And it's not even a purpose-built machine designed for that, it's a slightly modified lmp1.