[WEC] New rules. New manufacturers. The 2021 and beyond positivity thread!

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Mike E

The other strand to the new era, established GT3 teams taking a look at ACO series...

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/elms...ni-evo2-plans/

One interesting quote in here, and I may be taking it out of context, but in referring to being granted a future Le Mans entry:

“It’s still very unclear as to how many entries the manufacturers will be awarded, and how many will be up for grabs in the various series.

Does this make it sound like you may get an auto invite in GT3 in the future for winning a GT3 series? It would be a good perk if the ACO/FIA worked with SRO on this.

But the first sentence also had me thinking, will the ACO give each eligible GT3 manufacturer 2 or 3 entries for them to give to interested teams? Or could we have a situation with 6 Ferraris and 6 Porsche in the future instead of 2 each of 6 different GT3 makes?

[Simmi]

It's going to be super interesting in '24. If they do remove P2 from the WEC and you've got, let's say for simplicity, a 20 car top class full season (I actually think it will be slightly more), then the other 20 or so is made up of GT3s.

So at Le Mans in 2024 (approx):
25 Hypercar (full season plus some extra works cars/IMSA privateers)
25 GT3 (full season plus auto invites and privateers)
12 P2s (ELMS/AsLMS, auto invites)

Does that feel about right? Obviously you can limit P2s a bit more but you still want it to be a proper class. Anything less than 10 feels a bit token gesture. But manufacturer money will talk I guess.

To come back to the original point, when the WEC full season entries are factored in I don't think there will be loads of room for various auto invites.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Simmi

It's going to be super interesting in '24. If they do remove P2 from the WEC and you've got, let's say for simplicity, a 20 car top class full season (I actually think it will be slightly more), then the other 20 or so is made up of GT3s.

So at Le Mans in 2024 (approx):
25 Hypercar (full season plus some extra works cars/IMSA privateers)
25 GT3 (full season plus auto invites and privateers)
12 P2s (ELMS/AsLMS, auto invites)

Does that feel about right? Obviously you can limit P2s a bit more but you still want it to be a proper class. Anything less than 10 feels a bit token gesture. But manufacturer money will talk I guess.

To come back to the original point, when the WEC full season entries are factored in I don't think there will be loads of room for various auto invites.

That sounds about right, but will the regular season WEC have 40ish cars? or will they cap it lower? I guess if they kept the current auto invitees you would get 2 from IMSA and a handful from ELMS. Does Asian Le Mans Series still offer a spot as well? Perhaps their wouldn't be any possibility for tie-in from other series but having to deal with an over-subscribed grid has to be a good problem to have!


In a related note, where will the P2 cars all come from in your scenario if they aren't allowed in WEC? Will there be that much interest from ELMS teams?

[Superspeedway]

Originally Posted by joeb

That sounds about right, but will the regular season WEC have 40ish cars? or will they cap it lower? I guess if they kept the current auto invitees you would get 2 from IMSA and a handful from ELMS. Does Asian Le Mans Series still offer a spot as well? Perhaps their wouldn't be any possibility for tie-in from other series but having to deal with an over-subscribed grid has to be a good problem to have!


In a related note, where will the P2 cars all come from in your scenario if they aren't allowed in WEC? Will there be that much interest from ELMS teams?

I read recently that the full time entries are currently capped at 36?, because of both pit lane capacity at some tracks as well as the amount they can send on the boat to the overseas races.

[Mike E]

I find the idea of LMP2 just turning up for LM but not being in the WEC a bit weird. And it would be quite a big step up from ELMS LMP2 to WEC Hypercar for teams wanting to do that.

[Sodemo]

Is it inevitable that the ACO wants to get rid of LMP2? It’s kinda like the woman that turns up to the wedding wearing a white dress and upstages the bride…

LMP2 just seems to be a problem now for the WEC and ACO, to me it seems they would just rather it go away.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Mike E

I find the idea of LMP2 just turning up for LM but not being in the WEC a bit weird. And it would be quite a big step up from ELMS LMP2 to WEC Hypercar for teams wanting to do that.

I think a four-round mini series within WEC would be great for P2. Sebring, Spa, LM, Bahrain maybe. That way you've got 3 enduros and a pre-LM test at Spa. Plus no major grid capacity issues at those tracks.

LMP2 Endurance Trophy.

I can see the merits of simplifying the class structure within WEC. But then you'll only have two races to follow when for years we've been used to four.

[Adam43]

It’s all an embarrassment of riches at the moment!

I’d make sure that LMP2 is well represented at LM24. Need to keep the stalwarts of that class involved. They’ll be needed when all the manufacturers leave in 2026.

I have no idea, but I suspect some teams would like a regional series and LM only. Probably perfect from a cost income perspective. Some the other way I’m sure, but seems ideal - what you mean I don’t have to go to Bahrain? Get in there!

[Sodemo]

Has anything changed in terms of the balance of performance between the hybrid and non-hybrid teams?

[bella]

Originally Posted by Adam43

It’s all an embarrassment of riches at the moment!

I’d make sure that LMP2 is well represented at LM24. Need to keep the stalwarts of that class involved. They’ll be needed when all the manufacturers leave in 2026.

can’t agree with this any more. they’re curating something that costs seriously ridiculously big money for everybody, which is great until nobody can afford it any more.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Superspeedway

I read recently that the full time entries are currently capped at 36?, because of both pit lane capacity at some tracks as well as the amount they can send on the boat to the overseas races.

Indeed there was a listed cap, that was subsequently gotten around by some pit sharing I believe.

And welcome to the forum!

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Is it inevitable that the ACO wants to get rid of LMP2? It’s kinda like the woman that turns up to the wedding wearing a white dress and upstages the bride…

LMP2 just seems to be a problem now for the WEC and ACO, to me it seems they would just rather it go away.

LMP2, the Orecas at least, are amazing in terms of performance, reliability, and price. Before they were slowed down they were seriously quick and at a fraction of the price of LMP1.

Originally Posted by Simmi

I think a four-round mini series within WEC would be great for P2. Sebring, Spa, LM, Bahrain maybe. That way you've got 3 enduros and a pre-LM test at Spa. Plus no major grid capacity issues at those tracks.

LMP2 Endurance Trophy.

IMSA already has a 4 race endurance series that LMP2 cars are eligible for: Daytona, Sebring, Watkins Glen, and Petit. Perhaps trade out Watkins for Le Mans it you've got a winner!

[CTD]

I know this is the positivity thread, but I do get a bit of a 2008-vibe with these out-of-the-blue manufacture announcements.
Let us face it, we have a global recession rolling, which will impact motorsport budgets. Many of the announced programs will not live beyond 2024. (My opinion alone, of course)

[J Jay]

That's an understandable point of view. Even with the focus on keeping costs down, it wouldn't be a shock to see one or two manufacturers withdraw in short order.

But with so many upcoming entries, we hopefully won't be in a Peugeot-esque situation.

[Simmi]

It's the customer car aspect which gives me slightly more hope than previous peaks. I think that can help prolong things slightly.

I do think it's reasonable to expect some short programmes but it does sound like there's more to be announced still.

[Gingers4Justice]

On the flip side, WEC is a lot cheaper than F1. The optimist in me still says Hypercar gives you a lot of bang for your buck.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by CTD

I know this is the positivity thread, but I do get a bit of a 2008-vibe with these out-of-the-blue manufacture announcements.
Let us face it, we have a global recession rolling, which will impact motorsport budgets. Many of the announced programs will not live beyond 2024. (My opinion alone, of course)

Yet all the car numbers coming out this week do NOT reflect a downturn for them at all, in fact double digit growth

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Simmi

It's the customer car aspect which gives me slightly more hope than previous peaks. I think that can help prolong things slightly.

I do think it's reasonable to expect some short programmes but it does sound like there's more to be announced still.

I was going to bring up customer cars too. If all the manufacturers go and sell a few cars in the next couple of years we could still be in decent shape.

[Sodemo]

Why is the engine cover fin still required?

[Simmi]

IronLynx X Lambo works tie-up becomes official

https://twitter.com/IronLynx_/status...84173179518977

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Why is the engine cover fin still required?

It's because of this

'3.10 Aerodynamic stability
Regardless of the aerodynamic configuration, the car must fulfill a number of safety criteria to ensure a minimum
aerodynamic stability. Compliance with Article 2.3 is understood as a car being aerodynamically stable according to these safety criteria at all times. The criteria acceptance will be validated with Wind Tunnel measurements and/or CFD
computations. The complete procedure and acceptance requirements for these criteria are described in the
aerodynamic homologation process that can be found in the Appendixes to these regulations.'

[Adam43]

Yes.

You have to make sure that the vehicle is stable and won’t flip in certain situations. The fin is simply the best and easiest way to do this. If you can do it in another way fine, but why would yo? The fin does it really well.

[TF110]

Ferrari has their unique end plates for this reason. But I think they had a little fun with the liberties that the rules allow. The fin is hardly featured on the Peugeot.

[Sodemo]

I thought the fin was to direct airflow to the rear wing whilst the car is in a state of yaw/cornering? How come F1 cars used this fin, but now they have removed it on the current cars?

[Koenigsegg]

Regulations

[NaBUru38]

The fin prevents the car from spinning in the vertical axis in a big crash.