Sauber to Michelin?

[Mr V]

From www.F1live.com ....

Michelin is talking to Sauber, a source close to the Swiss F1 team said.

Owner and Principal Peter Sauber has repeatedly claimed Bridgestone's product, also supplied to champions Ferrari, is the current C23's biggest 'weakness.'

Qualifying is the 'main problem,' according to Sauber's Technical Director Willy Rampf, because delivering a fast single lap for a good grid spot is 'crucial.'

He said partners of the other tyre supplier have an advantage.

Reckon Ferrari would allow this, given their "relationship" with Sauber? Or welcome it due to that same said "relationship"?

[ASCII Man]

I would rather think they would welcome it, as then Ferrari/Bridgestone can get their grubby little hands on the data from Michelin's latest gizmo's and can respond to it faster than you can say 'Smoochie Moochie'.

[fog_shadow]

either way, Ferrari will get bashed

[Kicking-back]

If Michelin are to supply Sauber, i'm sure it'll be on the basis that no such information changes hands.

They're not stupid.

[ASCII Man]

Naive, but not stupid.

[Tamás]

Michelin is going to supply Sauber becase one of the bosses said nothing would hinder a change if the Swiss team wanted to run on Michelin tyres. But I can't imagine a way to overlook the dialogue between Sauber and Ferrari.

[Kicking-back]

Michelin will assign an engineer or two to the team and things will be closely monitored.

[Gt_R]

For people to think there'd be some conspiracy involve where Ferrari would get information regarding Michelins, it's oversimplifying matters.

They don't need it to win 10 races this year.

And strangely, nobody question if Jaguar/Michelin gets information of Bridgestones through Minardi and Jordan.

Regarding Sauber, currently, if based on this season's results...i would really wonder why they want a change. Being on the same tires as their immediate rivals would mean that to beat their rivals, they have to build a better car and have better drivers. This year, some of Sauber's good results are more down to Bridgestones than because of Michelins, and on paper, Sauber is yet strong enough to pose a serious threat to either BAR, Renault and eventually Williams.

It's a risk they have to take..would BS or Michelin be a better bet in the next few seasons? Making a right choice is important.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Gt_R
It's quite ridiculous that people think there'd be some conspiracy involve where Ferrari would get information regarding Michelins.

They don't need it to win 10 races this year.

Bridgestone have gone towards more of a "Michelinesque" shape tyre this year than they had last year and it's paid dividends. Why wouldn't they (BS) want info on their rival if they could get it?

[DKGandBH]

But Sauber is a known training ground for Ferrari (test) drivers, Jordan/Minardi and Jaguar don't have the same agreements in place.

David.

[Wrex]

Hmmm, with all this 'getting info' (cleverly masked as another Ferrari bash by some - not), can someone tell me how this would be any different to Jaguar and Jordan/Minardi?

[Gt_R]

It's quite strange when people also seem to target Ferrari of trying to wrongfully gain information about rivals with their creative speculation.

And do inform me about how many Ferrari test drivers have been training test drivers, or drivers for Ferrari? Last check, Sauber's greatest youngster in recent years, Kimi went to Mclaren Mercedes instead.

So is Heidfeld a spy for Mclaren Mercedes when he drove for Sauber while under contract to the other team?

Just because Ferrari supplies Sauber with engines, people assume it came with many unfair strings attached. Sorry to burst their bubble..but none have yet to materialise.

Cosworth, under Ford which also owns Jaguar, could have been milking information from Jordan and Minardi..oh..perhaps that's why Webber out-performs Sauber See how ridiculous it can be?

At the start of the season, critics were also so "sure" that Sauber's car's similarity with last year's Ferrari would mean Luca Badoer would run friday practice for Ferrari's benefits... 11 races in..Badoer is still just sitting in Ferrari's pit.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Wrex
(cleverly masked as another Ferrari bash by some - not),

Ferrari bash? I'm disappointed!

One-up-man-ship is part and parcel of F1, every team tries to do it, fact is, in this instance, Ferrari, due to their partnership with Sauber could benefit. You can't tell me that it hasn't crossed Michelins minds that the relationship between the 2 teams could possibly lead to a "sharing of information".

[Wrex]

Ooops, just read your post GTR.

After all these years at Ten-Tenths, it still stuns me how shallow the depth of understanding is from some of the fans.

Ferrari could care less I think. Whatever info they wanted on Michellin, they already have, and visa versa I would think.

It does'nt take a brain surgeon to figure out that the Mich is better in quals, the BS better over a race distance. I have no doubt both are aware of which tracks will be good and bad for each as well.

I think people severly overestimate the relationship between Ferrari and Sauber.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Gt_R
Last check, Sauber's greatest youngster in recent years, Kimi went to Mclaren Mercedes instead.

And i wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari are not still smarting about that!

[Wrex]

Originally posted by Gt_R
It's quite strange when people also seem to target Ferrari of trying to wrongfully gain information about rivals with their creative speculation.

Indeed, and equally funny is these are the same people saying Ferrari has a massive advantage. What are the stealing, ways to go slower?

Originally posted by Mr V
You can't tell me that it hasn't crossed Michelins minds that the relationship between the 2 teams could possibly lead to a "sharing of information".

Of course, but how stupid do you think Michelin are?

Would'nt it be easier to bride some techy than this painfully obvious method?

[grumpy1]

Originally posted by Wrex
Hmmm, with all this 'getting info' (cleverly masked as another Ferrari bash by some - not), can someone tell me how this would be any different to Jaguar and Jordan/Minardi?

Not only that Wrex but what about the breach of the rules?
The rules clearly state that no one supplier can supply more than 60% of the feild.So who are Michelin droping?
Toyota have denied there switching BMW,MacLaren,Jag, Renault&BAR are all signed until the end of 05.

The Grumpy1

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Wrex
Indeed, and equally funny is these are the same people saying Ferrari has a massive advantage. What are the stealing, ways to go slower?

Didn't you mention that Michelin had the better qualifying tyre? Wouldn't Bridgestone just love to know how Michelin acheive that? Or how about how Michelin seem to have a better tyre at the beginning of a stint?

Originally posted by Wrex

Would'nt it be easier to bride some techy than this painfully obvious method?

Well, it may be easier to bribe than get married

[Wrex]

Begging for me to edit your post are'nt you

Seriously, how could they not know already? A softer compound, a slightly different construction, do they care? Clearly Ferrari and BS prefer a better tyre for the race than the Michelin runners.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Wrex
Begging for me to edit your post are'nt you

You know me mate, i like to live dangerously

[Gt_R]

What i don't understand is that such "suggestions" are always suggesting that Ferrari and their partners as the "evil" one..the only ones that would gain any unfair information.

Why don't people start questioning Michelins interest in supplying Sauber to get information about Bridgestones instead? Isn't it time for a healthy change...

The Cosworth link between Jaguar/Jordan/Minardi showed that it is possible for engine supplies not affecting tyre supplies.

Why can't people take a Michelin-Sauber vs Bridgestone-Ferrari deal in the same light.

All everyone need is time to prove that such allegations/speculations are pointless and, again wrong, like others in the past

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Gt_R
What i don't understand is that such "suggestions" are always suggesting that Ferrari and their partners as the "evil" one..the only ones that would gain any unfair information.

As i've been the main contributor from the "other side" i'm sure you are meaning me here

I never said that Ferrari were "evil" and don't think i implied it, however, the fact that i mentioned something about the story (indeed, started the thread) means that people automatically assume that i'm bashing Ferrari.

In my defence, i did post this earlier....

Originally posted by Mr V


One-up-man-ship is part and parcel of F1, every team tries to do it ,

[Gt_R]

haha.mrV, it's the issue, not the person, i'm arguing with.. So there's no need for "In my defence".

I'm aware that you didn't say Ferrari's evil, and i didn't say you did .. it's just merely that every little things, people (not neccessary you) tend to put Ferrari under spotlight for shady deals - which after sometime, you realise it's all hot air.

I don't think Ferrari's pushing for Sauber to go Michelin for the sake of "information", and i don't think Ferrari will get any Michelin information even if Sauber went over. And most importantly, i don't think Sauber would compromise and be pushed around by Ferrari that easily.

[grumpy1]

Just one other thing I forgot to add earlier.Its not as if either supplier gives loose tyres to the teams.Each team supplies rims and either Michelin/BStone fit the choosen tyre.Remember tyres are controlled and each tyre has a recorded no which is allocatted to a car.This tyre is returned after the event regardless of condition.I doubt if either was gathering to much on the tyre its self.They would however gather info on how it performs under different circumstances.

The Grumpy1

[fog_shadow]

last time i checked, there were no points awarded for qualifying first. besides Ferrari and Michael are that good that even on the poor qualifying tyres, they still managed to grab a few poles (pun not intended) this year

fog_shadow