Sam Bird deserves his F1 break

[ace007]

Originally Posted by miniman

I cant comment on statistics but I do know that in his rookie year in GP2, racing against Maldonado, Perez,Bianchi etc Bird was voted the number one driver by Autosport presumably because of what you say here about mechanical dnfs. Without those, he could have come much higher

I am glad some people can recall some crucial points of view, Autosport being one of them.

He did in his first GP2 year (2010) what Nasr did not do yet in two years: Pole, Win and spectacular overtakings ending even with a "Sam Bird corver" (T5) named by Will Buxton after a memorable overtaking show in Barcelona in 2010 on a circuit known difficult to overtake.

[ace007]

For anybody enjoying pure racing and overtaking...:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAPa40qmuhY

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

http://www.darcyf1.com/download.php?z=23033

I'm not saying Bird is bad, just there are better...

[AS1924]

Originally Posted by ace007

For anybody enjoying pure racing and overtaking...:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAPa40qmuhY

Waooo! I somehow heard about that race but this is AMAZING!!!

Reminds me of GP2 Hamilton coming back through the field in Turkey!

[chico]

Well, "proof is on the pudding as they say" and on the evidence of what I saw this weekend, I'm impressed with Bird.

For me, the measure of great drivers is not what happens when everything goes right (most good drivers can convert that into a result), it's what happens when those numerous parameters that are outside a driver's control (a mechanical, a poor pitstop by the team, the reckless actions from an other driver etc) go wrong.

This weekend, Bird got blocked in quali by Cecotto (who was penalised yet again for his actions) which cost him a good grid position and then suffered a really poor pit stop from his team (maybe not their fault - looked like a dodgy wheel gun but still). He came out of the pits after that stop in p16!

From there, he set his sights on the coveted p8 and got it courtesy of some great (but always measured and controlled) overtaking and smart tyre management.

Race 2 was impressive too. He controlled the race from start to finish and managed his tyres perfectly, pushing what he needed to to keep Ericsson a couple of seconds behind, but never overdoing it and never risking running out of rubber. This is the mistake Nasr made on Saturday by pushing too hard too soon and trying to romp away from the field. You don't need to win by 25 seconds! In the event, he didn't win at all. A bit of inexperience still there.

So... flashback to Bird coming out of the pits in p16 in race 1. To end up scoring 19 points from there over the weekend shows incredible pace, control and maturity. That's the stuff of F1 in my opinion.

I think that's win number 5 for Bird this season? But actually, his race 1 drive to take 8th was equally impressive.

[ace007]

Originally Posted by chico

Well, "proof is on the pudding as they say" and on the evidence of what I saw this weekend, I'm impressed with Bird.

For me, the measure of great drivers is not what happens when everything goes right (most good drivers can convert that into a result), it's what happens when those numerous parameters that are outside a driver's control (a mechanical, a poor pitstop by the team, the reckless actions from an other driver etc) go wrong.

I think that's win number 5 for Bird this season? But actually, his race 1 drive to take 8th was equally impressive.

Thanks Chico! It is nice to see some people take notice of the details and not just the overall results. P8 could have looked mediocre if the qualy was not explained (Cecotto really needs to ask himself what his goal in life is...) and another unfortunate bad pit stop from the team...

I agree with you in terms of maturity level displayed over the weekend. and as the man said it himself: "Bad days happen. It's how you bounce back that counts."

This "bounce back attitude" is phenomenal in Sam and contrary to some pre-conceived ideas, Sam struggled to find the required budget year after year from F3 UK onwards. It involved many parties to get him where he is, apart from a tremendous work on himself in parallel.

I am saying all this to reinforce the idea that we have in Sam a fully rounded driver who worked really hard to get where he is and his time to shine in F1 has really come. (And no, this is not Sam nor his family speaking...)

And for those who say GP2 does not have such a competitive season, I would like to point out that all the names mentioned as upcoming talents (who are excellent drivers themselves) were beaten fair and square: from GP3 champion Evans and vice-champion Abt (both beating da Costa last year...) to F3 champion Nasr and promising Calado (both in their 2nd year in GP2), not forgetting the experienced Leimer (still leading GP2 of course!) and the multiple champion Frinjs who has shown his limits in this series if you ask me. So if GP2 is not competitive this year, what is then? WSR? With 3 excellent drivers in the name of Magnussen, Vandoorne and da Costa?...

Let's be honest. If you have something personal against Sam, I can not do anything about it - and we are all indeed entitled to our opinion - But in fairness, and in the light of his recent achievements, he looks the most attractive young prospect to graduate in the big category!

[chico]

ace007, you're clearly a bit of a Bird fan but I have to say, reading your last post, I think all your points are very valid and I can't disagree with any of it.

Let see what happens in Abu Dhabi. Full respect to Leimer of course, but it would be nice to see the driver who has won the most races win the title.

[ace007]

Well yes, it would be nice but a title is not all either. It is the way you win it too... Look at last year's WSR... Frinjs got away with some pretty appalling manoeuvres in Barcelona... but Bianchi is in F1! Of course, different management at the back but if ask me who is better between the two, I would not hesitate a second and confirm Bianchi as a true potential - Frinjs needing a bit of maturity still - Yet, Bianchi finished 2nd...

Now for a driver of his potential, it would be very nice indeed for Bird to clinch a world title before his F1 graduation as it is the one thing he still misses.

[Bononi]

How are, realistic speaking, the chances of Sam Bird get a F1 drive ?

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by Bononi

How are, realistic speaking, the chances of Sam Bird get a F1 drive ?

That depends on whether Mercedes would be prepared to help him in the same way they helped PdR.
If they help, then he'll race in F1 at some point. If not, then it's extremely unlikely he'll ever race there.

[ace007]

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

That depends on whether Mercedes would be prepared to help him in the same way they helped PdR.
If they help, then he'll race in F1 at some point. If not, then it's extremely unlikely he'll ever race there.

I don't want to make the site explode but I know for a fact that he is currently speaking with two teams as of today for a paid drive WITHOUT a necessary Mercedes backing.

[spider]

Well, trouble is, there's unlikely to be an opening for him at Caterham and Marussia. Nor is there going to be at Toro Rosso.

Mercedes just aren't going to place him in to Sauber - where they're clearly looking for pay drivers.

So, you've got Williams and Force India. To be honest, I'll be shocked if Mercedes stump up the cash to put him in one of those cars, as it won't be cheap...

So, personally, I think there's no shame at all in Bird doing a Pantano and being a 'career' GP2 driver for teams with a bit of budget ala Russian Time - and then looking to forge a strong career in Sportscars. That is how I personally see it going for him...

[ace007]

Originally Posted by spider

Well, trouble is, there's unlikely to be an opening for him at Caterham and Marussia. Nor is there going to be at Toro Rosso.

Mercedes just aren't going to place him in to Sauber - where they're clearly looking for pay drivers.

So, you've got Williams and Force India. To be honest, I'll be shocked if Mercedes stump up the cash to put him in one of those cars, as it won't be cheap...

So, personally, I think there's no shame at all in Bird doing a Pantano and being a 'career' GP2 driver for teams with a bit of budget ala Russian Time - and then looking to forge a strong career in Sportscars. That is how I personally see it going for him...

No shame at all indeed. I hope he sorts himself better than Pantano though who, with his skills, made a mess of a career!! F1 is still in sight though, take my word for it...

[jondownunder]

GP2 title contender Sam Bird interested in IndyCar move

[BSchneiderFan]

That would be the end of the F1 dream. Going from IndyCar to F1 just isn't realistic these days.

[Bononi]

Well, as he said, IndyCar is the pinnacle of the motorsport.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

He could succeed well in Indycar. I can see him being an old Justin Wilson, acing the road courses but struggling more on ovals. Maybe he could learn some from Jack Hawksworth on how to race there!

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by ace007

But in fairness, and in the light of his recent achievements, he looks the most attractive young prospect to graduate in the big category!

That is the only problem I have with you raving about Sam Bird. He is clearly a very capable driver and could succeed in F1, but seriously, the most exciting young prospect? Not any more. That is almost certainly Kevin Magnussen. The man has done nothing wrong at all this season, and has bounced back from issues incredibly well - see Paul Ricard.

And, to be pretty pedantic, when you say the most exciting young prospect for F1, I'd say Marciello, Vandoorne and Kirchhofer are far more exciting talents for F1's future. Marciello could solve Ferrari's Italian driver problem, Vandoorne could be the next Belgian hero (we have our doubts) and right now Kirchhofer looks like he could be the next Schuey.

[JacobP]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

That would be the end of the F1 dream. Going from IndyCar to F1 just isn't realistic these days.

I think an F1 team would consider giving a test to a young driver who somehow slipped though the F1 radar early on, but comes close or perhaps wins an IndyCar championship in his first or second year in IndyCar. The problem is that IndyCar hasn't had recently any young driver who was on the same level with JV, JPM, or Michael Andretti.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by JacobP

I think an F1 team would consider giving a test to a young driver who somehow slipped though the F1 radar early on, but comes close or perhaps wins an IndyCar championship in his first or second year in IndyCar. The problem is that IndyCar hasn't had recently any young driver who was on the same level with JV, JPM, or Michael Andretti.

Will Power and Scott Dixon are right there, if not better I would suggest.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by wnut

Will Power and Scott Dixon are right there, if not better I would suggest.

Better than Bird, or JPM?!

He would be at least on a par with those 2, but Montoya in his pomp, certainly not.

[ace007]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Better than Bird, or JPM?!

He would be at least on a par with those 2, but Montoya in his pomp, certainly not.

In my view, there is no doubt Bird would be up there fighting for the top 5 regularly. I would have said top 3 if it wasn't for the ovals which are quite specific but considering he likes racing close to the walls, it shouldn't take him too much time to adapt.

Having said all that, I still think it would be a loss for Formula 1 to let go such a talent abroad. He has gathered so much information thanks to his work at Mercedes F1, gained so much experience in his Pirelli tyre management thanks to a 3rd year in GP2 that it would be a real pity at this stage not to benefit an F1 team in need of a boost.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

As I've said though, Robin Frijsn surely? He has outrageous raw pace, and Vettel, Senna and Villeneuve were never perfectly mature racing drivers at one point.

[spider]

It's great Sam's brought about such debate and he's undoubtedly a lot better than his karting/early progress suggested. If he goes to Indycar that's a one-way ticket away from F1, but to be honest, that's no bad thing. If he can get into a series like that at his age, he could be there for many years (if the series doesn't fold).

How good he is in real terms is still tough to work out...I see him as very solid, but not a potential megastar.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by spider

How good he is in real terms is still tough to work out...I see him as very solid, but not a potential megastar.

Yes, pretty much my view as well - much better than average but not an ace. Still deserving enough of decent drives if they become available (which they only do once in a blue moon unfortunately)