Environmental concerns with V8 racing. - Page 2

rdmdog · 18 Jul 2009, 22:49 (Ref:2503962)

I was at Sandown yesterday and one of the noisiest cars there was a Nissan 350Z that not only was noisy, but it didn't even sound good.

Remember what we hear may not transfer onto a noise meter, and the other atmospheric conditions of the day may have an effect too (wind. Cloud)

Yes some historic machines, two or more wheels are incredibly noisy!

NAC · 18 Jul 2009, 23:00 (Ref:2503966)

Quote:

Originally Posted by acotrel65

I'm involved with motorsport and want to see it progress. I'd like to point out that at Broadford they cannot even scratch their backsides without getting a noise complaint. What are you doing when you allow a V8 supercar to emit a loud detonation with every gear change? We have an idiot like Bernie Ecclestone raving on in public about liking dictators, and you guys doing your noise thing - doesn't help one bit! Nobody is objecting to normal racing noise at most circuits - the backfire from the V8 supercars is not normal and it's unnecesssary. V8s have raced for yonks, and without the big bang on every gearchange.

Look I think you hit the nail on the head before when you said "I for one will never go to one of those meetings again, the noise of a car peaking out then backfiring is revolting. It's all so unnecessary!"

There is your answer right there, you just stay away from those dam noisy cars and leave them for the rest of us to enjoy that big noise at every gear change.

Go Harder. · 18 Jul 2009, 23:17 (Ref:2503971)

In the words of a friend when offered a set of free ear plugs at Indy a few years ago, "If my ears don't bleed, I want my money back!"

Tourer · 18 Jul 2009, 23:20 (Ref:2503973)

Quote:

Originally Posted by acotrel65

Understand this - I'm on your side! This topic is being discussed on this forum, not with a government authority as a result of a complaint. The backfire of the average V8 is at least an impulse noise reading of 135dB, and it doesn't need to happen. Get your heads straight about this - Any neighbour or spectator has valid grounds to complain - just get ahead of the game and fix the problem.

Except that the maximum level allowed is 96Db and every circuit has a noise meter. The noise levels are policed very strongly be the tech guys and the whole field is compliant within the Australian Standards for measuring noise.

Neighbours etc may complain but if all the cars are under the required level (which they are) then the complaint ain't going anywhere.

There is a very big difference between measured sound level and the pitch the human ear picks up - unless you actually had a calibrated noise meter, at the correct distance, in the correct environment etc there is no way that your estimate of 135Db is even going to be close to the mark.

acotrel65 · 18 Jul 2009, 23:21 (Ref:2503974)

I believe that in the end, the future of our sport will depend on public opinion, and a cost/benefit analysis performed by the democratically elected government. It won't really matter how much fun we get from the game, or the skills base it generates. It will come down to who's 'offside'. I suggest we need to think about what a cost/benefit applied to our racing, would show. Obviously when the good people around Albert Park kicked up about the Aus GP, the state government found the benefits outweighed the costs. However what I'm saying is we should never get to that situation. If it's possible to run V8 supercars without the backfire, that would be good!

Aarrgh8 · 19 Jul 2009, 02:25 (Ref:2503999)

Quote:

Originally Posted by acotrel65

I believe that in the end, the future of our sport will depend on public opinion, and a cost/benefit analysis performed by the democratically elected government.

Kevin, is that you? Are you sure you don't mean a cost/benefit analysis by way of detailed programmatic specificity - in due season?

acotrel65 · 19 Jul 2009, 05:50 (Ref:2504016)

I understand that on last night's TV news there was an item about noise at Sandown, and the fact that the local kids cannot drive there due to noise complaints from neighbours, What was that about?

rdmdog · 19 Jul 2009, 05:55 (Ref:2504019)

I was at Sandown yesterday, and the loud banging noises that I could hear were from the other side of the Highway.

Is there a rifle range or something near there?

Trevor · 19 Jul 2009, 08:31 (Ref:2504067)

Quote:

Originally Posted by acotrel65

I believe that in the end, the future of our sport will depend on public opinion, and a cost/benefit analysis performed by the democratically elected government. It won't really matter how much fun we get from the game, or the skills base it generates. It will come down to who's 'offside'. I suggest we need to think about what a cost/benefit applied to our racing, would show. Obviously when the good people around Albert Park kicked up about the Aus GP, the state government found the benefits outweighed the costs. However what I'm saying is we should never get to that situation. If it's possible to run V8 supercars without the backfire, that would be good!

Things quiet on the work front Alan, so you have a little more time to spend in here?

rdmdog · 19 Jul 2009, 08:47 (Ref:2504076)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

Things quiet on the work front Alan, so you have a little more time to spend in here?

Does Allan make mufflers maybe?

V8 Fireworks · 19 Jul 2009, 09:26 (Ref:2504088)

Quote:

Originally Posted by acotrel65

What are you doing when you allow a V8 supercar to emit a loud detonation with every gear change?

I suppose you have a point and TEGA could ban the shiftcut and use the ECU rules to require a less aggressive tune - have the cars sounding more like unpowered privateer cars - much smoother sounding, more like hotted up road cars?

After all Honda & IRL decided to change the exhaust to a pleasing sound instead of a horrible shrill which spectators didn't like - so your idea is not without precedent.

NewsStalker · 19 Jul 2009, 09:30 (Ref:2504090)

Quote:

So we cant smoke we cant drink and were not allowed to make loud noise Im really getting jack of people telling me what i can and cannot do.
Wowsers will be the death of this country.

You haven't been given permission to die yet - so forget that and continue living.

mayhem · 19 Jul 2009, 09:36 (Ref:2504091)

Hey acotrel, if you're hting the noise from V8s, may I suggest you steer very clear of a top-fueler at full noise...

NewsStalker · 19 Jul 2009, 09:42 (Ref:2504095)

Quote:

Except that the maximum level allowed is 96Db and every circuit has a noise meter. The noise levels are policed very strongly be the tech guys and the whole field is compliant within the Australian Standards for measuring noise.

And the known problem with the noise meters is that they are static - i.e. they are placed in such a position that someone can watch and note the number of the car exceeding the level for the day.

All it is going to take is someone with a grudge (maybe not even that) to go to a meeting with a calibrated noise metere, independent witnesses, and record the noise at points OTHER than the official noise meter and then lodge a complaint.

Alan may not have worded his original post the best way, but the point he is making that the transitory loud noises will sooner or later start to generate interest from the EPA. So why not fix it before it gets to that stage?

It isn't rocket science after all.

(I think you will find, if anyone cares to investigate a bit further, that a number of years ago a certain governing body of motor sport whose offices are near to Caulfield Race Track, were given a proposal by a company involved in electronics within the sport that could help automatically record and tie in all vehicles and their noise readings at the tracks noise meter. Guess what - they refused the 'offer' - even though it wouldn't have cost them or the tracks any money. Why did they refuse it? Well, make your own assumptions, but don't forget that the current system still relies on a human being who can miss, not see or even forget to record the details of an infringement when it suits them errrr I mean when they have a lapse errr when they want to errrr..... Which bank?)

NewsStalker · 19 Jul 2009, 09:44 (Ref:2504096)

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

I suppose you have a point and TEGA could ban the shiftcut and use the ECU rules to require a less aggressive tune - have the cars sounding more like unpowered privateer cars - much smoother sounding, more like hotted up road cars?

After all Honda & IRL decided to change the exhaust to a pleasing sound instead of a horrible shrill which spectators didn't like - so your idea is not without precedent.

Go back a few years also to Improved Production rotary Mazda's - they were one of the most irritating and lilterally ear piercing noises that came from a race car.

The only problem was - they never registered on the noise meters - therefore our beloved CAMS refused to do anything about them.

BFC · 19 Jul 2009, 10:59 (Ref:2504124)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourer

Except that the maximum level allowed is 96Db and every circuit has a noise meter. The noise levels are policed very strongly be the tech guys and the whole field is compliant within the Australian Standards for measuring noise.

Neighbours etc may complain but if all the cars are under the required level (which they are) then the complaint ain't going anywhere.

There is a very big difference between measured sound level and the pitch the human ear picks up - unless you actually had a calibrated noise meter, at the correct distance, in the correct environment etc there is no way that your estimate of 135Db is even going to be close to the mark.

Probably like many years ago when neighbours complained of noisy sprintcars at Avalon Speedway..EPA went down with noise meter and stood on complainants front porch on sprintcar night. The loudest noise regestered was the guys cows mooing in the paddock next to the house..............no more complaints

BFC · 19 Jul 2009, 11:02 (Ref:2504126)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdmdog

I was at Sandown yesterday, and the loud banging noises that I could hear were from the other side of the Highway.

Is there a rifle range or something near there?

Yes next to the cemetery....no complaints over there

EfiOz · 19 Jul 2009, 22:53 (Ref:2504489)

I detest annoying, whiny sounds which is why I don't listen to talk back radio......

....or this thread for that matter.

PVDA · 19 Jul 2009, 23:04 (Ref:2504496)

The EasterNats contract at Sandown has been cancelled with one of the excuses being noise & smoke although my ear to the ground suggests a lot more to it.

There was a protest at a Bunnings store on Friday night with the usual goings on you expect from the EasterNats crowd and a follow up interview on Saturday with locals standing on what looked like Corrigan Rd probably less than 100m from the back straight of the track.

You could "just" hear the cars in the back ground competing in the VSCRC round there over the weekend.

Crash Test · 20 Jul 2009, 01:35 (Ref:2504545)

I haven't exactly read this post for post, but there is a bit of a thing up here in QLD with the reopening of Lakeside. Basically the big stipulation about it is that is has to be quiet. Gone is the PA (replaced with FM radio, everyone is going to take a little while to get used to it), and there is strict noise metering around the track with a 95db limit. People have fitted mufflers (and in a fair few cases, having some more back pressure has given a HP boost!), and go racing- the racing is still fantastic, fast, seriously quiet, and we have a brilliant circuit back open.

I was talking to Tony Quinn who was competing there recently, and he was right in his assessment that it is a good thing for the sport. If the cars are kept quiet, we'll be able to keep circuits operating in urban areas such as Sandown. It's a bit of common sense really...

PVDA · 20 Jul 2009, 02:17 (Ref:2504554)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crash Test

strict noise metering around the track with a 95db limit. People have fitted mufflers (and in a fair few cases, having some more back pressure has given a HP boost!)

You've also got to look at what's being sucked into the engine as well as being blown out. Induction noise can be a problem on race cars as well and is fixed by a thicker air cleaner filter.

Trevor · 20 Jul 2009, 06:13 (Ref:2504605)

Bit like you Knackers - LOL

Donnaracer · 24 Jul 2009, 14:32 (Ref:2507178)

Ahhh come on guys...it isn't the gearshift switches that cause the noise pollution, its the brain-fart inspired PA commentary!

Listening to any of those goons in Townsville for any period longer than 3 minutes caused all manner of ear drum problems - luckily the gear shift pops and bangs sorted it out briefly and you wished for ten cars to pass at once so you didn't have to be subjected to the self indulgent verbal diahorrea.

Funny that a racing site has a racing thread that is complaining about racing noises. Agreed the gear flick kill switch is grossly unnecessary, agreed that the eco friendly ethanol is being consumed in quantities that would service a third world country for decades, and we have lost our beloved V8 flameouts because of a V8 Supercar sponsorship deal, but hey don't come to a site like this and complain about it...it is a sure fire way to get attacked. Also, has anyone thought of the fact that events like the Townsville 400 and Hamilton 400 are never 400km in total length...work it out...cos they aint. But what the hec....anyway I digress....woeful

Razor · 24 Jul 2009, 14:46 (Ref:2507184)

Logically speaking, this is the most illogical thread I have come across.

Live long and prosper (Does Vulcan salute)

retro · 25 Jul 2009, 02:12 (Ref:2507452)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor

Logically speaking, this is the most illogical thread I have come across.

Live long and prosper (Does Vulcan salute)

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