New Concorde Agreement

[wolfhound]

I have noticed that there has been speculation in the press about the next concorde agreement. It has been mentioned here

http://plus.autosport.com/premium/fe...ge-in-f1-2012/

and here inthe last few days

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/

It appears that Bernie wants to go back to the days of divide and rule but will that work? The FIA would like to get more money from the sport but not much has been heard from that source in recent times.
The teams would like to up their percentage take from about 50% to something like 70% but where will it all finish up.
There is also the possibilty of up to 4 or 5 more races in the next few years as well (if the promoters can afford them).

[Marbot]

As it says in the article, Bernie can only give the teams no more and no less than any other team would be given. So there's no advantage in jumping the gun to signing any sort of agreement with Bernie. But there may be those that seek to persuade some as to what might be in their own best interests when push comes to shove.

And yes, it does seem like 2012 could be another 'political' year in F1.

[csirl]

I cant see it being signed - there's no benefit to the teams. They'd be financially much better off without Bernie, so thats whats going to happen. Doesnt help Bernie that we're in a recession as it means the teams need a bigger slice of the commerical pie to fund their activities. My bet is that the teams will take the whole pie and stop paying over the odds to the middleman. This has been coming for years. The main reason the 'breakaway' was stalled a couple of years ago was because the teams figured out that it was easier just to let the Concorde Agreement expire at the end of 2012.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by csirl

I cant see it being signed - there's no benefit to the teams. They'd be financially much better off without Bernie, so thats whats going to happen. Doesnt help Bernie that we're in a recession as it means the teams need a bigger slice of the commerical pie to fund their activities. My bet is that the teams will take the whole pie and stop paying over the odds to the middleman. This has been coming for years. The main reason the 'breakaway' was stalled a couple of years ago was because the teams figured out that it was easier just to let the Concorde Agreement expire at the end of 2012.

Which begs the questions: Why is FOTA falling apart, and why is it happening now?

My guess is that, after some initial disagreements, a new concorde agreement will be signed by all of the teams before the end of the year.

[csirl]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Which begs the questions: Why is FOTA falling apart, and why is it happening now?

My guess is that FOTA was set up to try and counterbalance Bernie. If Bernies no longer around, there is no need for FOTA. The obvious path that this will take is for F1 to be run by the participants with the middle man cut out. Bernies power was totally dependant on him having the rights. Once thats gone, then he's like the wizard of oz - all smoke and mirrors.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by csirl

My guess is that FOTA was set up to try and counterbalance Bernie. If Bernies no longer around, there is no need for FOTA. The obvious path that this will take is for F1 to be run by the participants with the middle man cut out. Bernies power was totally dependant on him having the rights. Once thats gone, then he's like the wizard of oz - all smoke and mirrors.

Not so. Bernie doesn't actually own F1, he owns about 10% of the shares, CVC own F1. He works for them, as CEO, on their behalf. And if you think that F1 will be run by all of the 'participants', should Bernie (CVC) and FOTA no longer be around, then that's fairly naive of you to think that.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Not so. Bernie doesn't actually own F1, he owns about 10% of the shares, CVC own F1. He works for them, as CEO, on their behalf. And if you think that F1 will be run by all of the 'participants', should Bernie (CVC) and FOTA no longer be around, then that's fairly naive of you to think that.

interesting information from the court case with CVC saying that F1 was a marginal business and high risk due to potential instability when they bought into it.

They will probably want to exit asap for a variety of reasons (see Saward)and will in the near future.
The teams could and should buy it but I would agree with Marbot its unlikely they will and nor can they cooperate effectively to run it properly.

On the other hand those teams who have a large influential backer could club together to buy a controlling share....
Just imagine what would (could?) happen if one major player held the controlling interest, either a team player or sponsor/backer....

[csirl]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

The teams could and should buy it but I would agree with Marbot its unlikely they will and nor can they cooperate effectively to run it properly.

The rights revert to FIA once the contract expires, therefore there is nothing to stop the FIA putting in place (or even imposing) a mechanism on the teams that puts an obligation on them, or people answerable to them, to run the sport. I could see the FIA putting in place a 'Commissioner' type person to run the sport and instigating something similar to the model used in most North American sports e.g. NFL.

The other point that people miss is that if the rights are to be sold again for another period of time ala CVC, it is more likely that the new contract will be put out to tender. So even if we retain the same structure as current, it is more than likely that someone else will win the tender.

[Marbot]

Didn't the FIA sell the commercial rights of F1 for $360million to BE on a 100 year lease?

That being the case, then it's going to be a long time before the FIA ever take control of the day to day running of F1, bearing in mind that CVC pays the FIA quite a large amount of money for not having to get involved in the day to day running of F1. BE has sold those rights to CVC, and he gets to be CEO of that company into the bargain.

If the teams want to buy anything, they'll have to deal with Bernie, head on.

The FIA owns Formula One as a series, which means that no other organisation can claim that it has a Formula One series. But it doesn't own the commercial rights.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by csirl

I could see the FIA putting in place a 'Commissioner' type person to run the sport and instigating something similar to the model used in most North American sports e.g. NFL.

the NFL, NBA, MLB, and NHL all have a commissioner with that person elected directly by the franchise/team owners. the office of the commissioner is in charge of schedules, rules (sporting and technical), umpiring/referee crews, negotiating of TV rights (teams are free to work their own deals but must receive league approval and revenue must be shared), and an intermediary between the the owners and the players unions.

sounds great but maybe with the exception of the NFL, most fans view the commissioner of their respective sport as old autocrats who have held power for too long and are far too out of touch with the needs of the common fan.

F1 sort of already has that person and maybe better the devil we know...and you just know the next person in charge is going to be 10times worse than BE.

[wolfhound]

Ferrari want to keep all the Eoropean classic GPs so I wonder how that will register with Bernie as Ferrari usually gets what Ferrari wants. They also want to see the return of the French GP.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97011

[wolfhound]

The slow burn of information coming out of this court case could make life very difficult for BCE.

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/

[wolfhound]

Joe Saward belives that Ferrari and Red Bull are about to sign up to a new Concorde deal for their own reasons.

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/

[Marbot]

hmmmm.....this is going to get very interesting in the not too distant future. You'll note that Sky News have been up to their old tricks again.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/177705/..._promises.html

[wolfhound]

I wonder if the same story is going round all the media

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98192

[Bononi]

That all depends how long Domenicali will hold his position in the team...



I would hear from Luca first.

[wolfhound]

It looks like most of the teams have agreed to a new Concorde agreement, including Red Bull, Mclaren & Ferrari.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlin...2/3/13154.html

That was much sooner than I expected.

[wolfhound]

Mercedes are playing their cards close to their chest but it seems like they are not happy with the terms offered. Bernie is using his old divide and rule tricks. The terms of the new agreement being designed to suit certain teams. It is possible the terms offered could end up with Europe's competition dept.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98347

[Marbot]

Yes, it would appear that Mercedes and Williams' are not happy with the deals Bernie has given them. I think it's mainly for historic reasons. Mercedes haven't had an F1 team for a long while, and Williams' seem to have dropped off the map a bit. But Mercedes has provided engine to F1 teams for a long while now, and Williams' were having no more of a bad patch than Ferrari were having not too long ago.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Yes, it would appear that Mercedes and Williams' are not happy with the deals Bernie has given them. I think it's mainly for historic reasons. Mercedes haven't had an F1 team for a long while, and Williams' seem to have dropped off the map a bit. But Mercedes has provided engine to F1 teams for a long while now, and Williams' were having no more of a bad patch than Ferrari were having not too long ago.

So... ???

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Bononi

So... ???

So Williams' and Mercedes may feel that they're being short changed somewhat in comparison to what some other teams may be receiving from Bernie's big pot of Gold.

Marussia are also wanting the FIA to look at the goings on with the Caterham/Force India IP affair, and for obvious reasons.

[wolfhound]

It appears that McLaren along with Red Bull & Ferrari are to get seats on the board of F1. This is probably the reason why the teams have agreed to the new deal early.

http://www.pitpass.com/46137-McLaren...on-board-of-F1

[Bononi]

Board of F1 ? That sounds important.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Board of F1 ?

No, this year is quite exciting.

[wolfhound]

More on the new Concorde agreement. Bernie wants to expand to 24 GP's, thereby increasing revenue. This could cause many logistical and cost problems for the teams and media. At the moment there must be 12 weeks between seasons and a 3 week summer break. It also appears that there must be GP's in certain countries with a minimum number of 50% for Europe and the USA. I think it will be some time before this is signed sealed and delivered.

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/expanding/