GP2: Expand entry so 'F1' drivers don't intefere with young guns prospects?

[hotwheels]

Perhaps GP2 is starting to stablish as a place for non-successful ex-F1 drivers? I would prefer the money paid for them to be invested in newcomers, instead.

[Mekola]

And what's the problem with this? Oldie F2 had place for ex-f1 hopefuls, even F3000 had Jan Lammers and Norberto Fontana in its files after their F1 careers, for me it's better because newcomers will battle against experienced drivers in order to expand their skills.

[Suze]

Hms I'd disagree there. There are a couple of ex F1 guys, but there's still a lot of up and comers too - take Hamilton and Piquet this season for starters.

[outflat]

Hopefully Pantano will come back next season and Pizzonia gets a seat.

In a field of 24-26 having maybe 4-6 ex F1 guys is a good yardstick for the new talent coming through.

I've thoroughly enjoyed having Glock in the series this year - his drive at Hockeheim certainly showed up the likes of Lopez as a never-will-be.

[bella]

but is it fair comparing drivers with more experience like that? it might be a yardstick, but it could be considered a slightly unfair one?

[outflat]

Assuming the aim is to reach F1, they'll be racing against a range of experiences there.

Maybe drivers will learn more in GP2 if they are up against more experienced competitors?

It's a bit like in football - where older experienced pros in the reserves help bring on young players better than if it's an "under 21" set-up.

[SALEEN S7R]

I agree outflat, having more experinced drivers to race against and learn from in GP2 can really only be a good thing. Gives the younger guys a bit of a taste of what is to come if they ever make it into F1, make no mistake if Pizzonia and Pantano could get the backing they would probably be in contention for a F1 drive, at least with a back marker/privateer team. They are by no means bad drivers. IMO.

Besides, I woudnt put too much faith in the testing times if I were you. Once the season begins and the new younger drivers become familar with the cars and tracks etc I would expect the faster ones to be as quick, if not quicker than Pantano and Pizzonia.

[littleman]

I believe any driver who has already competed in F1 should be excluded from participating in GP2.To my mind, GP2 is all about the latest generation of 'young guns' doing their final preparations prior to graduation to F1.Why allow a limited number of drives to be taken by drivers who've had their chance and not succeeded for what ever reason.Let's face it,there's no way back for drivers like Pizzonia,Pantano,Bruni etc.They should be looking to ChampCars, A1GP,IRL,tin-tops etc.

[outflat]

The heyday of F2 in the 60s and 70s had plenty F1 drivers in it.

Busch has plenty of NASCAR drivers in it.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by outflat

The heyday of F2 in the 60s and 70s had plenty F1 drivers in it.

Busch has plenty of NASCAR drivers in it.

Yeah a handful of more experienced drivers is good definitely.

It automatically gives everyone a yeardstick by which to judge the younger hot shots. It also gives the drivers who've already been to F1 a decent opportunity to regroup and if they can continue to show their speed and talent why shouldn't they be looked upon favourably too?

Overall it also says a lot about the big standing GP2 has if F1 grade drivers are wanting to compete in it!

[littleman]

I'm all in favour of ex F1 drivers re-grouping and continuing their career's, just not in a formula which only allows a finite number of teams and cars and was specifically created as the last stepping stone to the vey top.

F2 in the 60's and 70's didn't impose a limit on entries,in fact it was the complete opposite.Some years you even had to pre-qualify just to get into the main event.

If GP2 didn't limit the number of drives available then no problem.

[outflat]

I somehow don't get the impression though that there are hordes of drivers and teams with GP2-sized budgets available just waiting to join if that limit wasn't there.

[bella]

Originally Posted by littleman

I'm all in favour of ex F1 drivers re-grouping and continuing their career's, just not in a formula which only allows a finite number of teams and cars and was specifically created as the last stepping stone to the vey top.

spot on. if the series was open, and anyone could buy a car and turn up, fair game (and i dare say seats would be a little cheaper as there's less demand).

i don't think it's too much of a problem, but if there's improvements to be made to the series, perhaps an extra team might help. i do appreciate this could create issues with pitlane space though for starters.

[Mekola]

Could be 15 teams / 30 cars like in WSR. That was the original purpose in GP2 before switching to 12-13 teams.

[medler]

Bruni, Pantano and Glock all won races. And in half a season Glock went from nowhere in the Championship to 4th place and was only a few points from getting 3rd place.

So why should someone like Glock be less deserving of a seat just because he has done F1 than some of the also rans that do GP2?

[littleman]

GP2 will always have restricted numbers, simply because it's shoe-horned into the tight schedule of a Grand Prix weekend.The late,lamented F2 from the 60's and 70's was viable enough to stand alone.Sadly,those days are long gone. It appears that if single-seaters don't race with a high profile championship then spectators just simply won't turn up in numbers.There are many reasons for this,not least the dreadful onslaught of the pitiful one-make concept.

[medler]

Are all of the young drivers in GP2 really potential F1 drivers? So are the 5 or 6 F1 drivers really taking seats that might be filled by the next F1 star? In fact some of the ex F1 drivers might be more deserving of another go F1 than many of the other drivers in the series.

There are many reasons you can't have an unlimited number of seats in the series, Such As: Space in the paddock, space on the grid and in the pitlane for pitstops. As well as fitting heats into the timetable of an F1 weekend.

[littleman]

With the impending ban on Friday GP drivers looming, my fear is alot of these drivers may well get 'backed-up' into GP2 as well.

[Jackman]

Originally Posted by littleman

I believe any driver who has already competed in F1 should be excluded from participating in GP2.To my mind, GP2 is all about the latest generation of 'young guns' doing their final preparations prior to graduation to F1.Why allow a limited number of drives to be taken by drivers who've had their chance and not succeeded for what ever reason.Let's face it,there's no way back for drivers like Pizzonia,Pantano,Bruni etc.They should be looking to ChampCars, A1GP,IRL,tin-tops etc.

I'd be happier with the entry of Timo Glock (4 races, Jordan), Giorgio Pantano (14 races, Jordan), Gimmi Bruni (18 races, Minardi) and Antonio Pizzonia (20 races, Jaguar / Williams), where all of these drivers could run valid reasons for not being able to show their true ability in formula one, than the likes of Fairuz Fauzy, Can Artam, Sergio Hernandez or Ferdinando Monfardini, who haven't really shown any ability to step up a notch in GP2.

[bella]

Originally Posted by littleman

With the impending ban on Friday GP drivers looming, my fear is alot of these drivers may well get 'backed-up' into GP2 as well.

yes, exactly. it's not fair to keep a driver out of racing for a year just for a couple of days testing every few weeks regardless of having 3rd drivers at f1 meetings, and i dare say in some cases it can be as detrimental (sp) to a drivers career as putting him in a rubbish car in a rubbish series. i think gp2 should be somewhere for these drivers to keep their skills sharp.

i'd say we all agree that it's important to have some ex-f1 drivers lurking in the series. but too many is a bad thing.

taking the idea a little further, if we were setting the rules, how many ex-f1 drivers would we suggest as a limit?

[Mystery]

There shouldn't be any limit at all - that seems ridiculous to me. It would devalue the series enormously (at least in my mind!) if there were groups of capable drivers who had never had the breaks for whatever reason who couldn't make it into GP2 because they did not fit the quota, but whilst there are drivers who will never make it but have massive budgets who insist on hanging around

(wonders if Mr Tahinci reads these boards.....)

[N I Tram]

Glock and Pantano aren't much older than some of the up and coming drivers who were in GP2 this year, and they don't have vastly more experience. Imposing a limit of say 20 F1 races for anyone wishing to race in GP2 is worth considering, but guys like Glock who have a little F1 experience add a lot to the field.

There shouldn't really be a limit on the number of teams, even if it would only mean 2 or 4 extra cars. Maybe the issue is space in the paddock? I don't think GP2 being one-make is the problem - it's a better yardstick if everyone has the same equipment, and GP2 hasn't had the shortage of overtaking or incident that some wing-based one-make championships have.

[strider]

Originally Posted by bella

i'd say we all agree that it's important to have some ex-f1 drivers lurking in the series. but too many is a bad thing.

taking the idea a little further, if we were setting the rules, how many ex-f1 drivers would we suggest as a limit?

Probably 4 or 5 at the maximum. I'd like to see Pizzonia there for a start.

I don't think just one more team would do any harm either. Someone like Carlin Motorsport.

[hotwheels]

I just hope this "ex-F1 invasion" does not mean the newcomers will pay more for their second seats. I can't see many teams with own funding to pay professional drivers or at least to let them race for free...

The best thing for me would be to "obligate" each F1 teams to support at least one GP2 team (or seat) in order to provide them the opportunity of hiring the best drivers around (experienced or not), instead of choosing who-can-pay to drive.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by hotwheels

I just hope this "ex-F1 invasion" does not mean the newcomers will pay more for their second seats. I can't see many teams with own funding to pay professional drivers or at least to let them race for free...

The best thing for me would be to "obligate" each F1 teams to support at least one GP2 team (or seat) in order to provide them the opportunity of hiring the best drivers around (experienced or not), instead of choosing who-can-pay to drive.

I would've thought budgets will stay pretty much the same - costs can't really go up due to reglation changes or technical developments, only through inflation or something like that.

On balance, i'd say a driver who couldn't raise the money to stay on in F1 will be in a very similar position budget wise to the guys who are on the way through.

Pretty much all of the GP2 teams with possible exception of ART, Red Bull and Racing Engineering who appear to have some kind of sponsor/patronage thing going on, require a fair amount of sponsorship so it's a whoever can bring it gets the drive scenario.

Fortunately. the team managers appear to hire drivers who are quick and talented rather than just any old bozo with a fat wallet (well in most cases anyway!).