Turbine at Indy?

[David67]

Hi, I seem to remember a "turbine" car that ran at Indy years ago that was in the lead up until the last few laps and then a small part broke on the car. Can somebody confirm my memory and enlighten me or suggest a site about the team, driver or car. Thanks, very much. David

[Down F0rce]

Hello David. Welcome to to forums

1967 was the year. I've not had much luck finding a lot of info, but I found a couple of pictures of it





Parnelli Jones is the driver in these photos. There are more here.

[David67]

Hello DOWNforce, Thanks much, I didn't think that I was crazy, after all these years. Thanks for the photos also. David

[GP Racer]

Wow, when I saw the title of this thread, I thought that the turbines were making a comeback this year to the IRL!

Now that would be cool!

Welcome to the forum David67, and way to get me going!

[thebear]

Originally posted by GP Racer
Wow, when I saw the title of this thread, I thought that the turbines were making a comeback this year to the IRL!
Now that would be cool! Welcome to the forum David67, and way to get me going!

:confused: Me too! :confused:

[Tim Northcutt]

Andy Granatelli's STP team fielded the STP Turbine in 1967 with Parnelli at the wheel...

That was my first time to attend the Indy 500 as an 8-year-old boy...I'll never forget that day...The car slowed right in front of us on lap 196 or 197...

The following year, Granatelli brought 3 Turbines that were wedge-shaped Lotus Chassis built by Colin Chapman...the drivers were Joe Leonard, Grahma Hill and Art Pollard....

All three were in the hunt during the race...Graham Hill wrecked and I believe Leonard and Pollard experienced what was called a "Flame Out" on the engine during restarts following yellow flags....

But those Lotus cars were not only revolutionary-loking, they were drop dead gorgeous race cars....

But Bobby Unser was as fast or faster than all three on Race Day...He won the race in an Eagle, and Dan Gurney finished 2nd....

Due to the Turbine's dominance of the 1967 race (until it broke down in the final laps), the amount to thrust was reduced somewhat for 1968, and in 1969 and 1970 was reduced again...so much so that the Turbine would not have been competitive...thus it went away...

[Tim Northcutt]

BTW....In 1980, I went to Washington, DC, for a conference and visited the Smithsonian while I was there...

I saw the 1967 Turbine on display in the Engineering section of the Smithsonian when I was there...

I don't know if it was on loan from the IMS Hall of Fame Museum, or if it is part of the Smithsonian's collection, but that is the last time I have seen the car on display....

[David67]

Hi Tim, Thanks for the info, I can't help but ask what became of that "American technology". I had checked out the STP site and if spoke of their many years of racing history but nothing about a Turbine. The Parnelli Jones site mentioned the car. Thanks for sharing the fact that you saw it. I remember the Chrysler Turbine the was at the New York worlds fair in 65-66. Thanks again, David

[JGM]

Another turbine was entered for the Indy 500 in 1962. It was called the Trackburner and was entered by John Zinc for Dan Gurney. It failed to qualify. And another in 1966 entered by Jack Adams using a 1250 bhp General Electric turbine in a Demler roadster chassis. The chassis apparently wasn't up to the job of coping with the huge power of the engine and the car was banned by the USAC before it had a chance to qualify.

[Armco Bender]

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...threadid=38594

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by JGM
Another turbine was entered for the Indy 500 in 1962. It was called the Trackburner and was entered by John Zinc for Dan Gurney. It failed to qualify. And another in 1966 entered by Jack Adams using a 1250 bhp General Electric turbine in a Demler roadster chassis. The chassis apparently wasn't up to the job of coping with the huge power of the engine and the car was banned by the USAC before it had a chance to qualify.

Are you sure about Gurney and the 1962 race????

I could have sworn that he was hooked up with Mickey Thompson from the get-go, and that his car was powered by the Buick 215 Aluminum V-8 that Thompson had bored out to 255 cu. inches.

He even qualified in the top 10 with it, but the rear end went out on it and he finished something like 20th or 21st....

I believe that Gurney even bought that car many years later and restored it to original, because it was his first year at the Indy 500 as a competitor....

BTW....that little Buick V-8 was the first ever American-built aluminum block V-8....I have the Olds version of it in my 1962 Cutlass that I'm restoring...I read that in the info I looked up on the engine before I bought the car....

One other note on that engine....Jack Brabham got that engine after GM sold the licensing rights to Rover in the mid-1960s, put overhead cams on it, and won back-to-back F1 world championships with that powerplant....


Please let me know where you got the info on those two turbines prior to 1967....

I want to know because my father in law claimed that he saw a car with a "jet engine" out there when he was stationed at Grissom AFB in the early 1960s....

I've never been able to find anything on it when I've searched....

Thanks!

[Tim Northcutt]

I did find this through an advanced search on Google...

This is excerpted from Dan Gurney's AllAmericanRacers website, and it addresses his first Indy 500 and inviting Colin Chapman...who he hooke dup with Ford and who ultimaely revloutionized open-wheeled racing the following year with the Lotus:

"But first, The Rookie Test
It was good that Chapman was such a self-sufficient guest, because Gurney was not able to play full-time host at the Indy 500 party. He wound up driving one of three mid-engined cars designed by Englishman John Crostwaite for Mickey Thompson, who powered them with aluminum Buick V8s as the Harvey Aluminum Specials. Thompson, like Gurney, had seen the future in the Cooper Brabham drove in ‘61, and he was there with a team the year after Brabham’s pioneering run in the Cooper.

Before he could drive, Gurney, like any first-time Indy driver, had to take and pass his rookie test. The car he drove for that test was, ironically, an Offy, John Zink’s "Trackburner Special". It was his first drive in an Offy and his first drive on an oval track.

"I had never driven a lap on an oval track before," Gurney says, "or on those old, very hard, narrow-tread Firestone tires, that were essentially built for rigid-axle cars."

"The rookie test was not a slam-dunk affair," Gurney says. "There was no guarantee you were going to be able to get the car up to the speed you needed to go to qualify for the Speedway."

Gurney managed. He says the difference in feel between the Offy and the mid-engined monocoque was not as vast as one might think.

"There wasn’t that much difference in the steering effort of the front-engined Offy and the rear-engined Lotus I drove the following year," Gurney says. The thing that impressed him was the track itself."

According to his, the Zinc Trackburner was an Offy roadster...and Gurney drove it only to complete his rookie tests....


But if you do have info on the 1966 car, or a place where I can find out more, I'd greatly appreciate it...

Thanks!

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by JGM
Another turbine was entered for the Indy 500 in 1962. It was called the Trackburner and was entered by John Zinc for Dan Gurney. It failed to qualify. And another in 1966 entered by Jack Adams using a 1250 bhp General Electric turbine in a Demler roadster chassis. The chassis apparently wasn't up to the job of coping with the huge power of the engine and the car was banned by the USAC before it had a chance to qualify.

This post from you (JGM) finally prompted me to contact Donald Davidson, the Historian at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, who is an authority on not only the IMS but many aspects of the history of Open Wheeled racing....

BTW...for anyone coming in early for this year's race, Donald does an early evening show (around 6 p.m. Indy time?) here locally called "The Talk of Gasoline Alley" druing the month of May that will tell you virtually "anything and everything you would ever want to know about the Indy 500"...he also takes phone calls on the air from listeners with questions and he accepts e-mails and covers those questions as well...


Here is "The Word" from Donald Himself:

NOTE: The basics of your post were in fact correct, JGM....

1955 -- the First Turbine to ever turn laps at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway...had a Boeing engine and it was mounted in a Curtis car...the car did some exhibition laps on the second day of qualifying, but was not formally entered in the race...the US Military's "STrategic Air Command" also hd a partial involvement in the project.

1961 -- There apparently was a turbine (If I remember correctly, it also was being pursued by John Zink...Donald gave me so much info that I'm not sure on tat one though from my notes...) that was not done in time to even take the track...

1962 -- John Zink (with a "K")did in fact enter both a turbine and a Front Engined Roadster with the offy that year...Gurney took his Rookie Test in the Offy car, and practiced in it as well, because the turbine was not ready yet...in addition to Gurney, Duane Carter Sr. and Bill Cheesbourgh, among others, alss did practice in the Zink Turbine car once it was ready to run, but it was still very experimental...none could get it up to speeds needed, so the car was not entered into qualifying....that was when Gurney had to get his ride with Mickey Thompson that I described above...
BTW...this Turbine also was a Boeing engine...

1966 -- This entry that you referred to, JGM, was actually Norm Demler's car and entry, but it was sponsored by Jack Adams...this was before Adams became a car owner himself, but he was involved with it....Donald said that USAC didn't ban it, and that it was actually a "laydown" model car and not a roadster....the car actually was very fast and was quite stable...also had good brakes...the problem was the excessive heat generated by the engine...Bill Cheesbourgh drove it in testing but could not stay in the car form more than 3-4 laps due to the heat....yes, it had a GE Turbine in it...

1967 -- Parnelli's STP Turbine that is weel-documetned and accurate already...

1968 -- Not only did Granatelli enter the four Lotus Turbines, but Parneli was scheduled to drive the 1967 car in the 1968 race and was at least entered to do so...they had made some changes to the nose of the car and he practiced some with it, but decided not to run in it, and Joe Leonard took it out in practice and had a wreck in it...the 1967 was withdrawn from the 1968 entry list...
There also were two Shelby Turbines entered in 1968, but also withdrawn...

When the Smithsonian acquired the Parnelli car, they had to rebuild it and put the 1967 nose back onto it...

1969 -- USAC reduced the boost level for the turbines this year, and John Adams -- this time as a car owner -- entered a turbine-powered car...it was up to fairly competitive speeds, but not fast enough to make the race....

1970 -- THis was the final year of a Turbine entry...it was a rear-engined Gerhardt car...it did not qualify or race...


Whew.....

Boy is Donald Davidson "The Man," or what???

It was incredible to talk to him....

Now you know at least the basics of the Turbine at the Indy 500...

[jj2728]

the 67 STP turbine was at the speedway museum when i attended the USGP last year....in 2001 vince granatelli did a pre-race lap in the 68 car....what a wild looking and sounding beast....and as an aside, if you ever go to indy make sure you go through the speedway museum....it'll be the best 3 bucks you've ever spent....

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by jj2728
the 67 STP turbine was at the speedway museum when i attended the USGP last year....in 2001 vince granatelli did a pre-race lap in the 68 car....what a wild looking and sounding beast....and as an aside, if you ever go to indy make sure you go through the speedway museum....it'll be the best 3 bucks you've ever spent....

Their collection is absolutely amazing, isn't it????

They have stuff stored in that facility that they rotate into the exhibit area...what you see in the museum is only a small portion of their collection...