How would you feel?

[Snapper Baz]

The next round of the Mighty Mini's is due to take place on the Brands GP circuit (17/18th Apr)and all competitors have paid their (over the top) race fees to race on such hallowed turf'and all looked forward to a great race-BUT... they are now seemingly going to be put in a race with 2 other championships! The Xtreme Minis & Super Mighty Minis! (the supers & Extremes run together anyway) So: (1)The slower (but brilliant fun) Mighty's will now get a shorter race as the Xtreme's will be that much faster. (2) Many drivers will now need to buy new numbers for the cars as many will be the same as other cars. (3) With a limited space for the grid now-many regular competitors may not get a race at all making their hopes of getting any more championship points zero! What the hell is going on? Do clubs racing members count for anything these days-and what say do racing members have if they are not happy with the way a club runs things???

[redshoes]

I can sympathize, but....

Do they actually need new numbers? at the first round at Donington there were 2 number 1 cars, one each from the Supers and Xtremes. I was a bit surprised that was allowed in the first place though.

What's the grid limit? For cars of that size on the GP circuit I would expect 40-50 spaces. That should be enough unless you are expecting lot of extra cars to come out to play.

Haven't we been debating shrinking grid numbers (lets face it Supers/Xtremes have never been turning people away) and saying combining grids was a good thing?

[Dan Friel]

Think it will work out just fine.. as already mentioned I'm sure the GP licence allows plenty of cars, number stickers cost 20p each and the Xtreme Minis will have to make up around 3 mins to catch the Mightys..

Perhaps this move saves the super / xtreme race being cancelled?

[Andrew Kitson]

Remember the Shell Oils saloon car pursuit race on the GP circuit supporting the GP of Europe in September '83? This thread reminded me of this MCD John Webb idea so I have dug out the programme. As JP is calling on him for ideas now, perhaps this latest Mini one has something to do with him?
The pursuit race had 9 Fiesta's - 9 Renault 5's - 9 Toyota Corolla's from the Dutch Championship and 9 Mini Miglias.
The starts were all staggered for each make of car on lap times, the idea being that after 8 laps all would cross the line together in true handicap fashion. If I remember correctly, the race started with four different grids at relevant points around the circuit, although not sure on this. Anyone remember? Can't remember which make of car came out on top - drivers included Sir Jack Brabham, Divina Galica, Tony Pond, Richard Longman, Chris Lewis, Steve Hall, Mark Fish, Dave Loudoun and Graham Churchill.

[graeme]

Sorry, I think its a great idea, if all the cars will fit on the grid (38 starting limit, I think). Making best use of grid space and all that... I don't see that a slower class will get less time - they will get 20-minutes or whatever - the same as the faster class. What normally happens (in lap counted races) is that slower classes get more than they should:

10-lap 2CV race = 20-minutes
10-lap Clubmans race = 10-minutes

I'd kill to get Brands GP and would be happy to be put in with other classes (always fun beating drivers in the faster cars!). I've been trying to get BARC to go to Spa and put Grads, Super-Grads & Mega-Grad on one 70 car grid

[Snapper Baz]

Some good points there.

[Claire]

The BRSCC are clamping down on low grid numbers, I think you will find that they have put the calendar together so that if nesessary certain championships can run together, the minis next weekend are an example and I believe that the Porsche 924's had to run with the Fiats at Castle Combe as both were lacking numbers. Not sure how the drivers view it but from a marshalling point of view I would rather see a full grid than 8 or 9 cars going round the GP circuit, I had quite a bit of that last weekend!! I'm looking forward to the Mini's they have always been one of my favourite championships to marshal.

[Chris Y]

Thing is, as of now, the race is at least 10 cars oversubscribed. Apparently the BRSCC are reluctant to split the grids up again as there's "no space" in the race meeting to do it. It's not like the BRSCC to refuse a full grid to avoid going slightly over time on the meeting..

Minis always provide close racing, and the worry is that this is too many Minis at once - there are bound to be a few incidents, particularly as most of the drivers are not used to multi-class racing.

It's going to spoil the racing a bit for the competitors (most of whom will have never driven the GP circuit before, and are looking forward to it) if the drivers have to look in their mirrors every 2 seconds.

[Ian Sowman]

I would have thought most drivers would have some black tape to stick a '1' in front of their regular running number without too much trouble.

Could the Super Mighty Minis and Xtreme Minis not be split, one to race with the Mighty Minis and one with something else, depending on what is on the bill?

[Dave Brand]

So......we whinge about small grids, then when something's done about it, we whinge about it!

The biggest Super Mighty Mini field I've seen is seven......

[Snapper Baz]

Trouble is Ian that the Mighty's is one of the few championships that has had full grids for the last 4 or 5 years and put thousands of pounds in the BRSCC's bank vault(forget the other two at the moment)so why should one of the clubs best supported championships now get a raw deal...we are talking of possibly a quarter of the championships drivers not being able to race? Why doesn't that T-Car championship ever get mixed in with something else-its been going for ages with never more than about 10 cars max but somehow always gets it own races (probably due to age?)...two races in fact! Seems money talks.

[dasc04]

10 cars would be big for T-Cars. I've never seen more than 6 in one go!!

[kartingdad]

Although the T cars are a pain ( mega long test sessions- like kids need them!) and long races, we should perhaps live with them as the kids are the future - well perhaps if their folks continue to pay. On the other hand the T car drivers may have very lucrative paper rounds and instead of buying sweets, buy races!!!

[greenamex2]

I think you'll find that part of the deal for T-Cars IS limited grid sizes otherwise the little paperboys wouldn't have been allowed out so young. Also, the thought of running cars restricted to 100MPH with anything other than 2CV's really doesn't bare thinking about.

As to their contribution to the future of British Motorsport, I have my doubts. All it is going to prove is that Mummy/Daddy has enough money to fund them. Thinking about it that probably all the proof mst professional teams need!!!

[Snapper Baz]

I did hear that it was "silly money" some years ago to race one-so I can only imagine that its worth the club pursuing for financial reasons. There was talk of a Mighty Mini series being launched with youngsters in mind and these would have been a million times more afordable than the TCars but the BRSCC wouldn't entertain a more affordable series joining the circuits-wonder why?

[Chris Y]

Originally posted by Dave Brand
So......we whinge about small grids, then when something's done about it, we whinge about it!

You're missing the point here Dave - I'm all for merging series to make better grid sizes, and more value for the spectators and clubs, BUT not when a lot of regular drivers are then forced to sit out the race because it is oversubscribed...

Not such a good idea for the BRSCC to start alienating competitors in one of their best subscribed championships, but then again - that's what the BRSCC seem to enjoy doing isn't it? Screw the clubbie competitor with no money who can't get on the grid because there's not enough time for 2 races, and yet the rich kids in T-cars with 6-10 cars get 2 races and loads of testing. Something not right there.

It seems we've gone from 'small grids' (Mighties = usually 25, Supers+Extremes = usually 15) to ridiculously high grids (around 48 drivers want to take part in this one race)... Increasing grid sizes is good for everybody, but this is just going from one extreme (pardon the pun) to the other.

[graeme]

Yes, not good when competitors get turned away but I guess BRSCC were thinking that 25 + 15 = 40 which is approx the grid size. I guess the lure of Brands GP just pulled more out...

[jamo]

Snapper Baz, it's not just the mini's in this position at Brands.

Email from our Champ Co-ordinator earlier in week stated that the same was being applied to the Fords, in that the Ford Saloons and the Ford Fiesta grids were to be combined as one race.

Reason given for this change was that the BRSCC originally booked the Indy circuit but have now been given the GP and hence need to save time in programme (less races at each will now take longer).

[Tracey]

This is starting to turn into a meeting I would like to see - when is it, please?

Can't comment on the minis, but there seemed rather a lot of Saloons and Fiestas at Snetterton last weekend.

Still, I guess a big grid is better than running out of time (don't forget Brands has a very strictly enforced curfew) and not racing at all.

See also my comments on the filling grids thread, about a championship being decided by the actions of someone not in it.

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Chris Y
You're missing the point here Dave - I'm all for merging series to make better grid sizes, and more value for the spectators and clubs, BUT not when a lot of regular drivers are then forced to sit out the race because it is oversubscribed...

Sorry, I assumed that as Baz said that the drivers had paid their entry fees, the decision to merge was made on known numbers of confirmed entries.

It seems we've gone from 'small grids' (Mighties = usually 25, Supers+Extremes = usually 15) to ridiculously high grids (around 48 drivers want to take part in this one race)... Increasing grid sizes is good for everybody, but this is just going from one extreme (pardon the pun) to the other.

Don't worry - we were at Croft last weekend & had over 50 in a Supersport 600 race. Believe me, compared with that lot 50-odd Minis would look tame!

[Chris Y]

Originally posted by SkyRedButton
This is starting to turn into a meeting I would like to see - when is it, please?

17th and 18th of April, as in a week after this easter weekend.

[Snapper Baz]

Jamo, I hope you lot are not combined as well...I covered the Snet'meeting for Classic Ford mag'-they'll be a race report and pictures of all the races in the mag in a few months time. The Brands race should be covered by me as well-while the mag Ed' will be there hopefully on the Sunday to see the action!

[StephenRae]

How much is a T car entry? If a full grid ammounts to 36 x £165 = £5940 then for your average T car grid of say eight cars they should be paying £742 each to balance the books.

[Ian Sowman]

Baz - you will see from the timetable on the BRSCC site that the Ford Saloons and Fiestas are indeed also combined.

[vaughan jones]

Ford Saloons and Fiestas had 46 entries at Snett, I cannot see the profit in moving the meeting from indy circuit to gp,i am sure most drivers would prefer to race on gp,apart from those who dont get a race, but involving the club in a large surcharge that the hire the cost of the gp circuit carries and possibly turning away entries does not seem like way to go to restore the coffers of the club.