[BTCC] BTCC 2020 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

no big loss to the series

wan't he one of the top safety car/ incident causer ?

Shame, as last year he was really improving, and was almost a regular top 10 runner. I guess the decision to run the car solo hasn't worked out.

Not sure if he'll call it quits, I think the Honda is probably past its best so down to whether he think it's worth the money for a new car (FK8?)

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Shame, as last year he was really improving, and was almost a regular top 10 runner. I guess the decision to run the car solo hasn't worked out.

Not sure if he'll call it quits, I think the Honda is probably past its best so down to whether he think it's worth the money for a new car (FK8?)

FK2 past it’s best?! By what measure????

[porsche962fan]

i simply don't understand the logic of some dudes here

as it's common NGTC parts it's irrelevant what shell Civic it is


what does the FK8 have what the FK2 doesn't ?

you can understand Dynamics being forced to use the Fk8 for marketing reasons but teams like AMD doi't care about such issues and they showed they can get superb results out of those "old" cars

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

FK2 past it’s best?! By what measure????

For someone like Simpson it is - especially as he is using a battered 2012 chasis. Look at the MG, it's not going to be a competitive car for too much longer.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

i simply don't understand the logic of some dudes here

as it's common NGTC parts it's irrelevant what shell Civic it is


what does the FK8 have what the FK2 doesn't ?

you can understand Dynamics being forced to use the Fk8 for marketing reasons but teams like AMD doi't care about such issues and they showed they can get superb results out of those "old" cars

I mean that's pretty rich given some of the stuff you've said... 😉

I am very aware it's common parts, and also the AmD have had sucess with it this year. But it's an 8 year old chasis; look at the way the MGs have gone, it's not going to be a front running car for mucn longer. In my opinion of course!

[porsche962fan]

wouldn't it then much cheaper and more effective for Simpson to buy one of the BTC FK2 which wasn't involved in a heavy crash ?

how the series works even if the Fk8 they get some new super dooper engine or some aero gimmick chances are TOCA will simply cut their boost and advantage is gone

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Evantra

I mean that's pretty rich given some of the stuff you've said... 😉

I am very aware it's common parts, and also the AmD have had sucess with it this year. But it's an 8 year old chasis; look at the way the MGs have gone, it's not going to be a front running car for mucn longer. In my opinion of course!

And we don’t think it may be the quality of the drivers / team / engineers rather than the “car”. AmD with the Honda and Laser tools with the Infiniti have proved what happens when a proper job is done surely ?

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

And we don’t think it may be the quality of the drivers / team / engineers rather than the “car”. AmD with the Honda and Laser tools with the Infiniti have proved what happens when a proper job is done surely ?

Yeah I agree with that. But eventually, every car will reach if's development limit - look at the Mercs for example, same team and driver but this year it's been nowhere (for the most part). My point is that whilst car age is not the only factor in a driver's results, it does play a part. But yes you are also right.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Evantra

For someone like Simpson it is - especially as he is using a battered 2012 chasis.

In fairness, he has done most of the battering himself.

AMD were also running 2012 chassis, and they seemed to be doing ok.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Yeah I agree with that. But eventually, every car will reach if's development limit - look at the Mercs for example, same team and driver but this year it's been nowhere (for the most part). My point is that whilst car age is not the only factor in a driver's results, it does play a part. But yes you are also right.

I reckon AmD would win with the Merc

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by redshoes

AMD were also running 2012 chassis, and they seemed to be doing ok.

3rd in the overall teams standings only behind Team Dynamics and WSR , won both indy titles ....


you can't get better than this!!! except winning the overall title too

[porsche962fan]

speaking of FK2 isn't it really ironic that the only one written off is the AJ title winning one ? supposedly Jordan family bought the remains of it

so Turks has 3 fully functional cars in his collection , AJ just a wreck

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

speaking of FK2 isn't it really ironic that the only one written off is the AJ title winning one ?

Shedden's 2012/2015 title car has also been written off (by Mat Simpson)

[Evantra]

Also I believe JRT purchased the written off chasis earlier this year and I assume plan on restoring it.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

And we don’t think it may be the quality of the drivers / team / engineers rather than the “car”. AmD with the Honda and Laser tools with the Infiniti have proved what happens when a proper job is done surely ?

Hexagon did the current work on the infiniti, interesting piece on autosport.com recently.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[Alfisti]

Some of us seem to have forgotten what a fantastic job Shaun and his boys did with the MGs last year. Warren Scotts preparation was a disgrace in 2017, and although Excelr8 have been poor (compared with AmD) they are all learning the ropes, so on balance a fair effort.

If the chassis isn't a wreck and the driver, engineers, mechanics etc are good and the budget is OK an older car can run well.

In Simpsons case the budget is OK but in all other measures a miss. Ditto Jelley. Two teams who show zero potential.

AmD started as tail end Charlies and made steady progress year on year. Parker are as poor this year as their first. Simpson was garbage when Dynamics prepped his car - so is basically a rich kid with not enough talent at this level. Throw in second rate team and he's regularly keeping the Doctors car company at the back.

Maybe the Moffats will get a TBL from Simpson and offload the Merc as spares to Adam Morgan. The Merc did run well when Ciceley brought some different people in - Morgan is more than capable of podiums in that car next year.

[porsche962fan]

are you serious ?


Jelley got podium and even a win !!! in first season half

the problem in 2nd half was he was collateral victim of TOCA slapping WSR with performance penalties

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

are you serious ?


Jelley got podium and even a win !!! in first season half

the problem in 2nd half was he was collateral victim of TOCA slapping WSR with performance penalties

So TOCA pegged BMW’s back not the 3 series? On that basis if the FK8 gets something does it apply to the FK2?

[porsche962fan]

they pegged back the BMW engine which is same one in Jelley's 1 series

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

as it's common NGTC parts it's irrelevant what shell Civic it is

Not quite.

The running gear is common, and the subframes start out as a common design.
To fit specific shells though, the ROPS is unique for each car.
The ROPS (and also the front/rear subframes I think) can 'age', and no matter what happens to the rest of the car, this will always deteriorate over time.

So as an example - NGTC-12-002 (an FK2) suffered heavy damage in early 2017. This chassis will now, even if rebuilt, not have the same rigidity of NGTC-18-004 (an FK8).

[porsche962fan]

Subaru UK Paul Tunnicliffe also implies we won't see the Levorg again

Sadly, we have to accept that amendments on rulings mean that the Subaru Levorg may have raced for the last time

thank riddance

if Ash does end up in the Infinity and gets podiums and wins in it then hats off to him

[aland]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Not quite.

The running gear is common, and the subframes start out as a common design.
To fit specific shells though, the ROPS is unique for each car.
The ROPS (and also the front/rear subframes I think) can 'age', and no matter what happens to the rest of the car, this will always deteriorate over time.

So as an example - NGTC-12-002 (an FK2) suffered heavy damage in early 2017. This chassis will now, even if rebuilt, not have the same rigidity of NGTC-18-004 (an FK8).

cages or rops are custom but the mountings for front and rear subframes are in the same places, it is the same with any car, if it has taken a hit and needed to be put on a jig to straighten it with bits cut and welded it will react in different ways as the strength is altered, a weld will not deform in the same way as plain metal.... plus where race cars were built from road cars (the passats for example) that has seen use prior to build the shells might behave slightly differently depending on the stresses it has been through... some teams built from virgin spare shells, others were built from road cars, some were even written off road cars

[MagicBoy]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

Subaru UK Paul Tunnicliffe also implies we won't see the Levorg again



thank riddance

if Ash does end up in the Infinity and gets podiums and wins in it then hats off to him

Sutton could win in anything half decent. You might want to remove the blinkers and cast your mind back a few years to Ash and Cook in the MG 6.

Why the hatred for the Scooby? Aside from Plato being all smug about it being he perfect NGTC car, it got BOP'd into the midfield over the last three years.

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by MagicBoy

Aside from Plato being all smug about it being the perfect NGTC car, it got BOP'd into the midfield over the last three years.

One point I've always wondered... Had BMR just built the Levorgs and raced them, without all the fanfares and JP crowing about the loophole they'd found and successfully exploited, how long would it have taken for everyone to catch on to the cars inherent advantages? Would the CoG arguments etc have even taken place?

[Heavyd123]

Originally Posted by Pickles

One point I've always wondered... Had BMR just built the Levorgs and raced them, without all the fanfares and JP crowing about the loophole they'd found and successfully exploited, how long would it have taken for everyone to catch on to the cars inherent advantages? Would the CoG arguments etc have even taken place?

Well, same could be said of the BMW’s at the start of the season....
People can clearly see when a car has an advantage.....