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Old 17 Sep 2019, 21:09 (Ref:3928583)   #7156
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I read that earlier and it's interesting to note that too much weight can't be added because it risks making the cars unsafe. So power drops are most likely instead of a big weight gain. Then you go back to the same situation as the previous generation lmp2s had in overtaking GTE who don't sit still. The ACO's mindset on having 'hypercar' that slow really confuses me.
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Old 18 Sep 2019, 08:08 (Ref:3928640)   #7157
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The ACO's mindset on having 'hypercar' that slow really confuses me.
It's cutting costs so that they were able to lure in cheap shoestring budget manufacturers like Aston Martin. Much to the same way as mandatory hybrids and other technology was thrown out of the window in favor of balance of performance

Jenson Button knew what was going on in early 2018 already when he said he wanted to experience LMP1 when it was still proper fast before the next cycle
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Old 18 Sep 2019, 22:07 (Ref:3928756)   #7158
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I guess the Valkyrie is a little heavier than the estimates. There's no way Toyota can be 200+kg heavier than the previous generation. So it has to be Aston Martin and the insistence of using a Valkyrie based car that had the rules pushed to that weight.
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Old 19 Sep 2019, 02:13 (Ref:3928769)   #7159
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hondafan37 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridhondafan37 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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I read that earlier and it's interesting to note that too much weight can't be added because it risks making the cars unsafe. So power drops are most likely instead of a big weight gain. Then you go back to the same situation as the previous generation lmp2s had in overtaking GTE who don't sit still. The ACO's mindset on having 'hypercar' that slow really confuses me.
The races are supposed to provide emosion, Why do you worry so much about simplifying things for professional drivers? The overtaking to slow cars and other classes are things that leaders must know to win the races and are part of this races.
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Old 19 Sep 2019, 03:17 (Ref:3928783)   #7160
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The races are supposed to provide emosion, Why do you worry so much about simplifying things for professional drivers? The overtaking to slow cars and other classes are things that leaders must know to win the races and are part of this races.
Because lmp2 is not all professional drivers. They're mandated to have a lower class 'am'. GTE is continually getting faster even if the rules stay still. This is part of the reason why lmp2 was sped up. Now it's going to slow down again and the same problems they hoped to fix will come back. The decision making is pretty bad.
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Old 19 Sep 2019, 04:19 (Ref:3928791)   #7161
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hondafan37 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridhondafan37 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Because lmp2 is not all professional drivers. They're mandated to have a lower class 'am'. GTE is continually getting faster even if the rules stay still. This is part of the reason why lmp2 was sped up. Now it's going to slow down again and the same problems they hoped to fix will come back. The decision making is pretty bad.
Well maybe it would be nice to relegate LMP2 to the third class and leave GTE as second class, the ACO killed LMP2 when they turned it into a practically spec car and nobody wants to see that.
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Old 19 Sep 2019, 13:06 (Ref:3928883)   #7162
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But they can't detune the sterile spec Orecas to the power level of GT4 or whateer because they also need to slow down P3, which is a problem as it's also run in non-ACO series with differentiating class hierarchies
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Old 19 Sep 2019, 13:32 (Ref:3928890)   #7163
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LMP2 is in a weird spot at the moment. Too fast and not very interesting.

They are spectacular on track and when we arrived at LM on thursday and they were braking down into the Porsche Curves at dusk it was about the coolest thing I'd ever seen, but that doesn't translate very well on telly and them being spec cars with no dicernable differences other than livery doesn't help.

My ideal formula would probably be something like DPI where manufactures could put a "face" on them, and they were power limited to provide a more budget friendly option for companies who didn't want a space shuttle budget ploughing into prototype racing (I'm thinking Hyundai etc).
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Old 19 Sep 2019, 14:11 (Ref:3928898)   #7164
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I disagree that LMP2 is too fast. When it was slower it meant that gentleman drivers had to outbreak GTEs with Pro drivers. The higher top speeds (but similar cornering speeds) mean that the LMP2s can now blow by the GTEs, resulting in less issues with those.

I agree that LMP2 is in a bad place, and not interest etc, but I do think the current speed of the cars is about correct. If we slow LMP2 down, then we need to slow GTE down a lot.
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Old 19 Sep 2019, 18:18 (Ref:3928936)   #7165
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I disagree that LMP2 is too fast. When it was slower it meant that gentleman drivers had to outbreak GTEs with Pro drivers. The higher top speeds (but similar cornering speeds) mean that the LMP2s can now blow by the GTEs, resulting in less issues with those.

I agree that LMP2 is in a bad place, and not interest etc, but I do think the current speed of the cars is about correct. If we slow LMP2 down, then we need to slow GTE down a lot.
Or does the opposite happen and we simply allow things to be fast?
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Old 19 Sep 2019, 18:31 (Ref:3928941)   #7166
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I'm not following you. What do you mean the opposite happen? (Sorry, I'm having a blonde moment).

Remember that a specific effort was made to speed up LMP2 with more power to stop LMP2s having to race GTEs. It worked. Now we're going back to that, for no other reason than the LMP1s are about to be too slow. We're reintroducing safety issues that we solved.

LMP2 has loads of issues (and I think we all agree on those!), but speed is about right.
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Old 19 Sep 2019, 21:57 (Ref:3928981)   #7167
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Exactly. The speeding up of lmp2 a short few years ago is now pointless if hypercar is going to be roughly the same pace. The only solution without slowing every class is to have hypercar faster than anticipated. So qualifying is where current lmp1 race-pace is; ~3:20.xxx with race-pace at 3:25. I think more power will be required for that, or a not so bloated 1100kg. We'll have to wait and see.
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Old 20 Sep 2019, 08:28 (Ref:3929036)   #7168
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As mentioned elsewhere the easiest way to extend LMP2 lap times is with hard tyres. This would extend braking distances, retard acceleration and reduce cornering speeds, allowing lumbering hypercars to get away but not impacting top speed for easy passing of GTEs. A 'great' excuse for a spec tyre deal.
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Old 20 Sep 2019, 19:24 (Ref:3929131)   #7169
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As mentioned elsewhere the easiest way to extend LMP2 lap times is with hard tyres. This would extend braking distances, retard acceleration and reduce cornering speeds, allowing lumbering hypercars to get away but not impacting top speed for easy passing of GTEs. A 'great' excuse for a spec tyre deal.
Problems come from that too. One team/car knows the tires and dominates or the tires are so bad that amateur drivers are getting in the way and/or accidents. Not really wise on the safety aspect. I don't envy their position on making or not making the changes.
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Old 20 Sep 2019, 19:53 (Ref:3929135)   #7170
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I think TF110 hit the nail on the head. The solution is faster Hypercars. Given this is becoming a BoP class, and we already have privateer LMP1s that are cheap(ish) and achieve this, I don't see why it can't be done. You don't need expensive hybrids to go that fast.

Make Hypercar faster. Leave LMP2 at the current speed.
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