2019 TCR UK rumours and discussion

[S griffin]

I think nothing is going to make it work. Nice try though

[geordiecriag101]

You have to give them credit for giving it a go, but there has to come a point were you say enough is enough. Maybe a more logical move for next year would be move to the BritCar championship and become a sub class in that.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by geordiecriag101

You have to give them credit for giving it a go, but there has to come a point were you say enough is enough. Maybe a more logical move for next year would be move to the BritCar championship and become a sub class in that.

My hunch is that anyone that was interested in running a TCR in Britcar probably already is - ditto the relevant club saloon series where such a car could be raced. The main reason being the differences in format and presentation between TCR UK and the alternatives.

Running a subclass also doesn't work particularly well - whichever is the 'main' series will always dominate people's attention. As a few examples, no-one really remembers that Classic Thunder includes the old ModProd championship; 750MC Sports-Specials includes Westfields; and the 750 Trophy includes the Austin 7 Challenge.

As such, and I'm a bit disappointed to have to say, but TCR UK has been a worthwhile experiment, but unless things dramatically increase by the end of the year (i.e. grids in the high teens), it is time to go.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by kipper

As such, and I'm a bit disappointed to have to say, but TCR UK has been a worthwhile experiment, but unless things dramatically increase by the end of the year (i.e. grids in the high teens), it is time to go.

its literally the exact opposite of a worthwhile experiment!

[Johno.UK]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

its literally the exact opposite of a worthwhile experiment!

I think it's been worthwhile. With other TCR series around the world I guarantee people would have been asking over and over why we don't have one in the UK. Next season when we most likely won't there is now something to refer those people to.

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

its literally the exact opposite of a worthwhile experiment!

It has been a very worthwhile experiment even if it proves nothing other than there is no need for the series, at least the experiment was done, people took part, some people enjoyed it but ultimately it hasnt proved successful. There are concrete results to answer the question if the series (or any series to rival BTCC) would work now, rather than just speculation and opinion on forums like this. Previously we would never have known if the BTCC B-Tec project for instance would have been worthwhile, but now we do.

Not everything has to be succesful to have been worthwhile, and there is a learn to be made from almost everything. The TCR-UK model (both as intended and as part of the Stewart Lines Trophy) will be used as a case study for any other startups who want to enter that same space in the British motorsport sector to asses what has not worked out, what has, and if they really want to bother.

There may still be some tweeks that could be made to make the series viable such as supporting another series rather than being the headline act, changing the calendar (reducing to 1 race per event to cut costs and potentially boost entry), widen entry criteria to make entry more accessible. Whilst I agree that this has so far been a really confusing series, with such a limited audience and doesnt seem to work, you should remember BTCC was on its knees in 2003/2004 so if Stewart keeps with it and gets the right people involved, maybe this will gain traction but at the moment I am struggling to see it being here in 2020

[btccbloke]

Anyway who won, I havent seen anything in the press

[Motormouth94]

I completely understand people's concerns regarding grid numbers - there's no doubt that a 30 car grid creates a better spectacle than a 7 car grid, particularly when watching trackside. However, the racing really hasn't been bad at all, particularly at Donington Park a few weeks ago, and there is the old saying that it only takes 2 cars to make a motor race, which I think does apply to TCR UK/TCT.

As a case in point, let's refer back to a couple of BTCC races from 2018 that went down as instant classics. Snetterton Race 1 (Sutton vs Goff) and Brands Hatch GP race 3 (Sutton vs Cook). What made both of these races so enjoyable was an intensely close battle between just 2 cars. When watching on TV at home, the fact that there were 28 other cars on track was irrelevant, as all eyes were on the top 2.

Now I'm not saying that any TCR UK race this year has been as exciting as those two examples, that's not the point I'm making. The point is that as long as there is a decent race going on, I for one don't really care how many cars are in it. TV cameras can only focus on one thing at once after all, so it's only really the trackside spectators that will ever notice the true size of the grid.

With 4 races to go this year, there are just 2 points separating the top 2 in the championship, and the title will be decided at Donington Park, the circuit that seems to produce some of the best racing in this series. So how about we just sit back and enjoy the racing, since whinging about low grid numbers is sort of old news now anyway.....

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by Motormouth94

With 4 races to go this year, there are just 2 points separating the top 2 in the championship, and the title will be decided at Donington Park, the circuit that seems to produce some of the best racing in this series. So how about we just sit back and enjoy the racing, since whinging about low grid numbers is sort of old news now anyway.....

I think your missing a bit of a point here that I (and im sure many others) dont know who these top 2 are, what races they won, what class they are in, what they are driving, if they will be at the next round and if they are if they will be in the same cars or same class.
I mean, last time out someone won in a TCR car that we found out after they crossed the line didnt qualify as a TCR car so we aren't clear what class they won, or why, or if they even won or what points they got as a guest, even the TCR website was saying they won the TCR class when other sources said they didnt qualify.

It is bad enough to see results declared and sorted out in the stewards room rather than on track, but when we are finding results changed and declared on forums and articles a few days later because they havent sorted out what people are racing in/for its difficult to sit back and enjoy something that hasnt really been organised properly

7 cars, 8 at the most - it shouldnt be so confusing!

[Motormouth94]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

I think your missing a bit of a point here that I (and im sure many others) dont know who these top 2 are, what races they won, what class they are in, what they are driving, if they will be at the next round and if they are if they will be in the same cars or same class.
I mean, last time out someone won in a TCR car that we found out after they crossed the line didnt qualify as a TCR car so we aren't clear what class they won, or why, or if they even won or what points they got as a guest, even the TCR website was saying they won the TCR class when other sources said they didnt qualify.

I can't comment on the website issues, but it was fairly common knowledge at the circuit, and for anyone watching the live stream, that Max Coates was running in TCT at Donington Park. As for not knowing who is doing what in the championship, the website already has updated points after Croft yesterday, as well as a handy table telling you who finished where in each race, so it isn't really too difficult to keep up with what's going on.

[Johno.UK]

Problem with only two cars battling and a grid of single figures is that the spectators at the track have long boring gaps before the cars come round again. I was at a multi-class race at Snetterton recently with 27 cars and there were battles everywhere spread out around the whole track. That race got way more attention than the Fiesta races with 6 or so cars.

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by Motormouth94

I can't comment on the website issues, but it was fairly common knowledge at the circuit, and for anyone watching the live stream, that Max Coates was running in TCT at Donington Park. As for not knowing who is doing what in the championship, the website already has updated points after Croft yesterday, as well as a handy table telling you who finished where in each race, so it isn't really too difficult to keep up with what's going on.

if you read the pages here, i certainly dont think it was that common knowledge outside of the hundred or so people at the track, and to be honest when ive gone to events its not always clear in multi class events anyway.

I cant imagine a BTCC event for instance where there is confusion into the week if the winner was an independent or works entry.

[Motormouth94]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

if you read the pages here, i certainly dont think it was that common knowledge outside of the hundred or so people at the track, and to be honest when ive gone to events its not always clear in multi class events anyway.

I cant imagine a BTCC event for instance where there is confusion into the week if the winner was an independent or works entry.

Well it was mentioned several times in the live stream commentary, so I can't say I agree with that statement I'm afraid...

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Motormouth94

Well it was mentioned several times in the live stream commentary, so I can't say I agree with that statement I'm afraid...

The issue as mentioned was Coates as the story ahead of Donington on the TCR UK website read 'DAT Racing is delighted to confirm its entry for the Donington round of the TCR UK championship' when the car wasn't then in TCR UK.


Fast forward to Croft and the preview says that Lewis Kent is seeking his first win when strictly speaking he took his first TCR UK win at Donington in finishing second behind Coates who wasn't in the series but in TcT.


When there are drivers swapping at the last minute (Turkington and Woods suddenly into TCR cars for example) and others dipping in and out for a round, it makes it hard for people to follow what is going on.


I mean there have been six TCR UK races this season and not a single driver has competed in every one (in the TCR UK class) for whatever reason, which is hardly a great advert.

[Motormouth94]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

The issue as mentioned was Coates as the story ahead of Donington on the TCR UK website read 'DAT Racing is delighted to confirm its entry for the Donington round of the TCR UK championship' when the car wasn't then in TCR UK.


Fast forward to Croft and the preview says that Lewis Kent is seeking his first win when strictly speaking he took his first TCR UK win at Donington in finishing second behind Coates who wasn't in the series but in TcT.


When there are drivers swapping at the last minute (Turkington and Woods suddenly into TCR cars for example) and others dipping in and out for a round, it makes it hard for people to follow what is going on.


I mean there have been six TCR UK races this season and not a single driver has competed in every one (in the TCR UK class) for whatever reason, which is hardly a great advert.

Yes there was some confusion ahead of Donington regarding Max Coates, but as I've said, once we reached race day, that was all cleared up.

And I really don't see how it's all that confusing that people change their class - they were in one class, now they're in another, it's simple really!

Drivers coming and going is very common in most championships, particularly at club level. Whilst it would be incredibly rare in something like the BTCC, it's not un-common at all for a championship front runner to enter a few rounds of a club level championship, then disappear for most of the rest of the rest of the season. With many teams/drivers still reluctant to commit to TCR UK, it's no surprise that many are choosing to sample it for a round or two, before deciding whether to commit to a full season in the future

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by Motormouth94

Yes there was some confusion ahead of Donington regarding Max Coates, but as I've said, once we reached race day, that was all cleared up.

It wasnt cleared up tho was it?, read the forum, the race was on 22nd, we were still wondering on 24th if/why/what class Max Coates won. No disrespect but most people posting on here understand where to go for information about racing and it was still confusing.

Originally Posted by Motormouth94

And I really don't see how it's all that confusing that people change their class - they were in one class, now they're in another, it's simple really!

There are many reasons but to give you a few ideas... Because if you have a particular driver you want to follow you have no idea what he/she is driving or if they will turn up or if they are scoring points towards particular championships.
You could follow a driver leading the series who then doesnt turn up, or someone who has won nothing but seems to be miles in front in the series because of the amount of people winning a race and then never showing again

Originally Posted by Motormouth94

Drivers coming and going is very common in most championships, particularly at club level. Whilst it would be incredibly rare in something like the BTCC, it's not un-common at all for a championship front runner to enter a few rounds of a club level championship, then disappear for most of the rest of the rest of the season. With many teams/drivers still reluctant to commit to TCR UK, it's no surprise that many are choosing to sample it for a round or two, before deciding whether to commit to a full season in the future

You are forgetting that this series - both as TCR-UK last year and TCT /TCR this year, is not strictly pitched to viewers as club races. When this launched this was going to rival BTCC, and they believe the same crowd should be getting into it. Remember when this was so over subscribed they were going to have to have pre-qualifying sessions?, this is the headline act and the entry cost is far more than turning out in your club events every now and again.
You might have seen a close race between 2 cars but you need to start asking why teams and drivers you refer to are so reluctant to commit to TCR and why so many of these sampling a round or two are not then coming back for more.

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by Motormouth94

Well it was mentioned several times in the live stream commentary, so I can't say I agree with that statement I'm afraid...

so TSL refering to his entry as "Cupra TCR DSG" on the day when he was not a TCR entry makes perfect sense does it and isnt confusing to anyone catching up on results? (https://www.tsl-timing.com/event/192505/session/rc1tcr)

Were you at Donington? what did the race program say?? if as you imply everyone trackside knows whats going on i would love to know more

[pimmy]

It clearly says TCT in the class column. You're arguing over nothing.

[touring fan01]

even if all 7 cars at croft were all tcr cars the point is still the same. the series is hopelessly tiny in both quantity and quality and getting worse by each event

just look at the huge gaps in the race finish times from the just 5 cars that finished https://www.touringcartimes.com/2019...-race-1-croft/

its pathetic.
so shoot the poor dying animal and put us all out of its misery

[btccbloke]

.

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by pimmy

It clearly says TCT in the class column. You're arguing over nothing.

It clearly says TCR in the entry column, so how is the entry not confusing at a glance ? Especially with the contradictory build up!
Your right, I cant understand why everyone doesn't love it

[redshoes]

So what exactly is the points situation? The draft regs on the TCT website are from prior to the TCR merger. The published regs on the BRSCC website have the entire pints section removed. TCR website makes no mention of regs.

TCR website has a points table for TCR class cars only, although doesn't show the points allocation system. TCT website did have a championship table after the first round, although I can't find it now - that only showed non-TCR cars and using a different scoring system to what was on the TCR website.

Can anyone give a definitive answer to how ones are scored?

[Petoli]

Originally Posted by redshoes

So what exactly is the points situation? The draft regs on the TCT website are from prior to the TCR merger. The published regs on the BRSCC website have the entire pints section removed. TCR website makes no mention of regs.

TCR website has a points table for TCR class cars only, although doesn't show the points allocation system. TCT website did have a championship table after the first round, although I can't find it now - that only showed non-TCR cars and using a different scoring system to what was on the TCR website.

Can anyone give a definitive answer to how ones are scored?

Was watching the stream and according to the commentator their is only a points system for TCR UK. TCT is just a trophy for highest place car in that class.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by Petoli

Was watching the stream and according to the commentator their is only a points system for TCR UK. TCT is just a trophy for highest place car in that class.

so YOU were the person watching the livestream

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by Petoli

Was watching the stream and according to the commentator their is only a points system for TCR UK. TCT is just a trophy for highest place car in that class.

highest placed per race or overall? we have seen TCT cars beat TCR cars so where is the sense in that?

wikipedia seems to have tables for each but no idea how accurate they are