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Old 11 Apr 2020, 15:16 (Ref:3970096)   #126
Matt K
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Matt K should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridMatt K should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Yes, basically the whole last lap was crazy with Schneider going from 7th to 2nd, Ekstrom eliminating two Opels, Aiello dropping to 5th even though for most of the race it had seemed he would clinch the title and so on
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Old 11 Apr 2020, 15:35 (Ref:3970102)   #127
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Of course Aiello ended Schneider’s long reign as DTM champ that year
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Old 12 Apr 2020, 09:19 (Ref:3970242)   #128
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Yes and I think it was still the time when Abt wasn't a fully factory Audi team.
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Old 12 Apr 2020, 11:03 (Ref:3970287)   #129
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And when they still had the qualifying races
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Old 14 Apr 2020, 06:10 (Ref:3970687)   #130
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I've been back to the early 90's. The series heydays!!
Some tremendous action and huge grids packed with names.
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Old 14 Apr 2020, 09:27 (Ref:3970712)   #131
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Yes it was a great era then. Then they made the big mistake of going global with the ITC and we didn't have a championship for a while, hence why Schneider was undefeated for so long....
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Old 14 Apr 2020, 13:45 (Ref:3970757)   #132
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Matt K should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridMatt K should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I wouldn't say ITC era and globalisation was a mistake in general, the idea was good, the cars were amazing, although as time went by costs were escalating and racing got less interesting.
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Old 14 Apr 2020, 14:14 (Ref:3970769)   #133
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I seem to remember Bernie typically had something to do with it’s downfall
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Old 15 Apr 2020, 09:51 (Ref:3970916)   #134
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Yeah, I don't remember details of it but this is true, he was sort of unhappy with DTM/ITC getting stronger and stronger and saw it as sort of a threat to Formula 1's position.
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Old 16 Apr 2020, 07:57 (Ref:3971082)   #135
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Yeah, I don't remember details of it but this is true, he was sort of unhappy with DTM/ITC getting stronger and stronger and saw it as sort of a threat to Formula 1's position.

Something good came of it in the form of the Mercedes FIA GT programme. Mercedes now had a large sum of money sitting idle with the demise of ITC and used it to build the CLK GTR
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Old 16 Apr 2020, 09:01 (Ref:3971089)   #136
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And then unfortunately came the Le Mans car that became too dangerous
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Old 17 Apr 2020, 08:46 (Ref:3971275)   #137
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Yeah, I don't remember details of it but this is true, he was sort of unhappy with DTM/ITC getting stronger and stronger and saw it as sort of a threat to Formula 1's position.
Bernie initially 'endorsed' it after ITR lobbied him to help get FIA status for '96. ITC was initially scheduled for 3 years as a full FIA series.

HW Aufrecht desperately wanted to go global and had lurid visions of a NASCAR type set up but possibly took it too far from its German (and selected European races based roots) too quickly.

There was definitely appetite for it as the home and British crowds showed. There must have been serious intent from other manufacturers too. Aufrecht often mentioned Alfa, Merc, Opel being joined by 2 or 3 other makes which was allegedly Audi and Ford (Jaguar) Then Alfa and Opel pulled the plug with little notice during that first season both citing costs outweighing the benefit of racing outside Europe.

The Japanese round provided great racing and i'm sure it was deliberately on the calendar to try and get local makes to join. Toyota/Lexus had been mooted very strongly cause of their strong German automotive links.

I think it was catch 22 for the makes. High tech engineering, huge marketing platform, big name drivers great for domestic PR, but the cost involved was for an international level campaign. The Calibra, and to a lesser extent the E202 and 155 weren't models marketed much in Japan or Brazil!
That could have been dealt with to some extent by using local branding as Opel did by branding the Calibra as Vauxhall at Donington in '95.

Then of course Class 2 latterly Supertouring racing was getting huge. Most makes were drawn to that as they could see the same product in multiple countries for far less costs. BMW, Audi and Ford had all chosen that over Class 1 even though all 3 had got as far as prototype cars iirc?

Overall a great shame ITC didn't get fully off the ground. It had great potential...
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Old 17 Apr 2020, 10:00 (Ref:3971295)   #138
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Wow thanks for the whole story, I didn't know all the things!

Meanwhile, coming back to the 2020, with Berger being stubborn about 'Geisterrennen' without attendance, it may prove the biggest hurdle on the way for DTM. With federal government announcing ban on big events until 31 August, Norisring round is theoretically out of question.
There is one 'BUT'
Bundesliga is planning return without spectators and even Bavarian Prime minister Markus Söder (who attends Norisring race annually) claims running sport events without fans is conceivable. Now, ITR has to come to terms with possibility of 'Gesiterrennen' and try to renegotiate funding of Norisring race. Then we could see DTM in July.
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Old 27 Apr 2020, 15:14 (Ref:3973139)   #139
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Evantra should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEvantra should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEvantra should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Audi gone after 2020.

I feel that's the end of the DTM as we currently know it...
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Old 27 Apr 2020, 15:20 (Ref:3973142)   #140
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Audi gone after 2020.

I feel that's the end of the DTM as we currently know it...
Yep. It's dead.
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Old 27 Apr 2020, 15:24 (Ref:3973144)   #141
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This is the end of DTM. Berger has to seek drastic ways to continue this brand and maybe he'll finally listen to Hans Joachim Stuck and his idea to introduce GT3 or GTE cars to DTM. Without it, it's the end...
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Old 27 Apr 2020, 15:44 (Ref:3973146)   #142
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so it finally got the mercy shot
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Old 27 Apr 2020, 15:46 (Ref:3973147)   #143
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Audi gone after 2020.

I feel that's the end of the DTM as we currently know it...
thank riddance


MAKE DTM GREAT AGAIN

like it was in the late 80s during the Group A era

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIZLeRRuWW4
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Old 27 Apr 2020, 15:57 (Ref:3973150)   #144
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This is the end of DTM. Berger has to seek drastic ways to continue this brand and maybe he'll finally listen to Hans Joachim Stuck and his idea to introduce GT3 or GTE cars to DTM. Without it, it's the end...
GT3 won't save DTM. Absent household-name drivers, the reason why the crowds still show up to the DTM races are the cars. With GT3, DTM will be nothing special anymore. Between ADAC GT, VLN and guest appearances by Blancpain and GT-Open one can probably catch a GT3 races every other weekend over the summer in Germany... DTM would just be yet another GT series with cars that aren't even all that interesting to watch due to driver aids and muffled sound.

If I was Berger, I'd try to get the Audis released for privateer entries in 2021 (create a second division for GT3s or GT4s or TCR-cars to fill the field) and then work on a new ruleset for spectacular yet sensibly priced cars. Maybe a V8 and RWD sedan version of NGTC.
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Old 27 Apr 2020, 16:00 (Ref:3973152)   #145
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and then work on a new ruleset for spectacular yet sensibly priced cars. Maybe a V8 and RWD sedan version of NGTC.
itlaians tried this and didn't work but seems ratehr mismanagement than the actual cars , they were prodcutuin based with big V8 engines but limtied handling and brakes, the racing itself was pretty good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-AiHwlgnIw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeftgOauJOg



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Old 27 Apr 2020, 16:03 (Ref:3973153)   #146
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If I was Berger, I'd try to get the Audis released for privateer entries in 2021 (create a second division for GT3s or GT4s or TCR-cars to fill the field) and then work on a new ruleset for spectacular yet sensibly priced cars.
As a customer team why would you race in DTM in cars that can only be used in DTM rather than race in a GT3 championship? I don't see any manufacturers joining DTM so you need customer cars - and the current DTM cars are expensive and can't be used anywhere else. There's no 'up' side.

The current DTM cars are stunningly quick - I was surprised just how much quicker they are than GT3 cars over a single lap. I don't think you could seriously run the current DTM cars in a mixed grid (certainly not with GT4 or TCR) - the speed differential is too big.
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Old 27 Apr 2020, 16:08 (Ref:3973154)   #147
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Maybe a V8 and RWD sedan version of NGTC.
I get the idea, and it might have merit.
But it sounds (to me) a little restrictive.

NGTC works because of the range of cars that can be eligible, and already has RWD saloons competing.
The engine regulations permit standard production units, or a leased series-specific unit.

Would enough entrants want to develop their own V8 for such a series? And if there was a series-specific V8, would people be interested in it?
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Old 27 Apr 2020, 16:11 (Ref:3973157)   #148
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I’d be surprised if NGTC was suitable for “DTM”. I’d have thought doing something like adopting a form of TCR but with technical concessions would be better like a TCR+ with more power and perhaps a bigger aero kit. I saw there was a TCR Astra which was running at 400bhp testing on YouTube so I guess the added power wouldn’t be too problematic, but the aero could be more difficult I guess.
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Old 27 Apr 2020, 16:15 (Ref:3973159)   #149
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I get the idea, and it might have merit.
But it sounds (to me) a little restrictive.

NGTC works because of the range of cars that can be eligible, and already has RWD saloons competing.
The engine regulations permit standard production units, or a leased series-specific unit.

Would enough entrants want to develop their own V8 for such a series? And if there was a series-specific V8, would people be interested in it?
I still think making it a spec series with cars based on the current cars would be way to go. If they can get it to the point of costing 400k euros +/- I think that would work and keep the series similar to what it is today. I'd hate to see DTM become a GT3 series there is already GT Masters.

Someone mentioned GTE, if it were to come to that it would be a better option than GT3 I think but still would like to see something more raw. Also only two German manufacturers produce GTE cars (BMW/Porsche).
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Old 27 Apr 2020, 16:36 (Ref:3973162)   #150
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So Audi gone. Hope they are allowed to continue with private cars, so we can keep the grid at a good number. Otherwise they might need to go back to Super GT again
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