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Old 10 Nov 2010, 14:05 (Ref:2788092)   #26
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Docu-dramas... Versus... looks shockingly bad If this turns out to be true indeed, the only positive side is the chance of live streaming.
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Old 11 Nov 2010, 03:22 (Ref:2788389)   #27
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Boxee Box will be out Nov 17th, you can go directly to web sites using its Web Kit browser, supports Flash unlike Apple Products do. Pre-order is $199, its available outside of America as well on the same date.
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Old 12 Nov 2010, 00:18 (Ref:2788904)   #28
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Speed = NASCAR

Fox owns Speed + Fox has a large contract with NASCAR + NASCAR owns Grand Am = Grand Am on Speed and ALMS looking for a new TV home...
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Old 12 Nov 2010, 01:05 (Ref:2788916)   #29
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Say this is true and alms does real well on espn3 is there any chances of espn putting it on one of its main station like espn1 2 or news. that is a lot more promotion then speedtv, because espn is much more popular then speedtv in the USA
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Old 12 Nov 2010, 01:25 (Ref:2788920)   #30
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Say this is true and alms does real well on espn3 is there any chances of espn putting it on one of its main station like espn1 2 or news. that is a lot more promotion then speedtv, because espn is much more popular then speedtv in the USA
Probably not, they have a busy summer schedule of showing poker and bowling
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Old 13 Nov 2010, 00:53 (Ref:2789425)   #31
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As a Comcast subscriber, I would totally support a full Versus package. Versus does an excellent job with the Tour de France. They also do a good job with the NHL. I hear the IRL coverage is good, I'll check it out when they get new cars. Though sports car racing is a niche sport, its a hell of an expensive one, requiring respectable levels of sponsorship. Because of this I can't imagine them remaining successful without a real broadcast deal. Beach Volleyball has a decent package with NBC, so really there shouldn't be an excuse for the ALMS not to be able to put together a full season package with either Versus or Speed.
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Old 13 Nov 2010, 05:48 (Ref:2789481)   #32
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Say this is true and alms does real well on espn3 is there any chances of espn putting it on one of its main station like espn1 2 or news. that is a lot more promotion then speedtv, because espn is much more popular then speedtv in the USA
Explain how it would get more promotion on the linear channel?

I watch College Football on ESPN3 and I get ads (full adverts) from Lexus, Papa John's Pizza and a few others. They only show 2-3 15 second spots but its adverts none the less.

Michelin, Patron and say Mazda or Porsche could run 15 second spots the same way. You're forced to watch them, windowed or full screen, this is assuming you've actually used ESPN3.

ESPN is free to all cable and sat systems in the US and TSN uses their streams in Canada. Now given what they put on ESPN these days, if the ALMS is willing to pay for time on the main channel I'm sure it would, but it seems to me, ESPN is offering them basically the same rates or less to put it on Sebring on ESPN. Who knows why Versus won't have it, but they figure because ESPN3 can be watched anywhere with a internet connection as suppose to Versus which is only on the major cable and sat networks thus far, plus ESPN3 can be seen around the world its content its not restricted to country I don't believe.

Streaming is the future you already have it if you using Fios or U-verse for TV in America, its TV over fiber optic cable...

As I said there's no need to fret about it, a modest investment will get it off your PC onto your TV. Frankly I'm disappointed by the people that didn't take advantage of the free streaming of Laguna or Mid Ohio, none of them reached the 10,000 slot limit imposed by ToDocast.

I don't know what another solution could be other than putting on sub-channels as I said before. Everybody gets digital sub-channels (at least in America).
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Old 13 Nov 2010, 06:09 (Ref:2789483)   #33
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As a Comcast subscriber, I would totally support a full Versus package. Versus does an excellent job with the Tour de France. They also do a good job with the NHL. I hear the IRL coverage is good, I'll check it out when they get new cars. Though sports car racing is a niche sport, its a hell of an expensive one, requiring respectable levels of sponsorship. Because of this I can't imagine them remaining successful without a real broadcast deal. Beach Volleyball has a decent package with NBC, so really there shouldn't be an excuse for the ALMS not to be able to put together a full season package with either Versus or Speed.
I believe they feel they get wider coverage when they can have a few races on OTA network TV. The numbers I have seen prove that out somewhat with a .6 share on CBS where the docu-dramas where shown. They get between a .4 and .6 on Speed. Compare that to Grand Am which is around .2 and Camping World Trucks which is about a .4 and Nationwide even with Danica is around 1.0.

As I have said before ALMS touts its affluent fan base, so there should be no economic barrier to either getting Versus or watching the stream from the internet right???

Right????

Getting the stream isn't all that hard. I mean if you have a Sprint EVO4 by HTC then it has a HDMI output. 3G is about basic DSL speed when it comes to streaming. You can buy a dock for it ($39) and it will connect to your TV.

If you have AT&T the Dell Streak Phone/Internet tablet also has HDMI out.

For Verizon users, there's a hack for the using the Droid X's disabled HDMI output.

By Christmas there should be a Samsung Galaxy S Tablet on every system. There will be a dock for it with HDMI out.

You can also get Archos 5 Internet Tablet which has HDMI out, no dock needed ($199). In fact its a PVR too, if you connect it to your TV it will record as well.

Actually there's NO EXCUSE to acess the stream available to you in some form or fashion and I already talked about Boxee Box and the cheapest Google TV options.

ESPN3 is also on Xbox 360 (Xbox Live)

Besides you'll be future proofing yourself to some degree.
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Old 13 Nov 2010, 11:15 (Ref:2789589)   #34
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Whoa, not everybody wants to buy an expensive portable device to watch streaming. And the best-selling (and overhyped) portable devices are from a fruity company that will never make it easy to output a video signal... Laptops do it too and I got myself a - literally - book-sized nettop that does everything and more, including 1080p.

Even with all of those, I'm always watching alone and this is where a conventional TV broadcast is still better to attract people to the series. Falling upon a Vette racing a Ferrari when zapping will get some people just like seeing Tiger Woods concentrating before a putt will. When I was watching the Mid Ohio race on NBC on my parent's living room TV, both my father and my brother joined me and started asking questions about the prototypes and the GT cars. That's why I think the series should still showcase its product out there in the most accessible spot. The docudrama format works really well there. Purists will always complain unless they get full races live with commentary from Hindhaugh so give it to them online; a few thousands will tinker and jump through hoops to get it, me included. I see the solutions in between these two much less ideal because they bring more compromises than benefits.
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Old 14 Nov 2010, 09:21 (Ref:2790012)   #35
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Whoa, not everybody wants to buy an expensive portable device to watch streaming. And the best-selling (and overhyped) portable devices are from a fruity company that will never make it easy to output a video signal... Laptops do it too and I got myself a - literally - book-sized nettop that does everything and more, including 1080p.

Even with all of those, I'm always watching alone and this is where a conventional TV broadcast is still better to attract people to the series. Falling upon a Vette racing a Ferrari when zapping will get some people just like seeing Tiger Woods concentrating before a putt will. When I was watching the Mid Ohio race on NBC on my parent's living room TV, both my father and my brother joined me and started asking questions about the prototypes and the GT cars. That's why I think the series should still showcase its product out there in the most accessible spot. The docudrama format works really well there. Purists will always complain unless they get full races live with commentary from Hindhaugh so give it to them online; a few thousands will tinker and jump through hoops to get it, me included. I see the solutions in between these two much less ideal because they bring more compromises than benefits.
Then those people can suffer and not come on Ten-Tenths *****ing. I gave a warning months ago about the possibly of the series turning to streaming only maybe a year or two early.

As for growing the fan base, that has happen despite the coverage. TV ratings have actually gone down as attendance has gone up, don't ask me its just the numbers I have seen.

Quite a few people listen to Hindy's streaming and ALMS has done a poor job promoting it actually. More than 10,000 people listen to Hindy world wide, how come 10,000 slots weren't filled for the streaming?

Speed is available to 80 Million Homes in America. I believe Versus reaches slightly less than that. I don't think it will make much of a difference in overall numbers.

The difference is that Versus I believe is willing to pay for it. Where before Speed and ALMS worked together to get the time on the channel paid for with sponsors. This wouldn't be the first time Versus has approached the ALMS to host its races. That has been confirmed by both Murphy The Bear and Hindy, Versus talked to the ALMS a few years ago.

The four sprint races they'll have is likely a trial run. I don't know if the channel wanted to commit to resources (read:$$$) to longer races without knowing how the ILMC effects Sebring or how a 6 hour race will do in ratings.

If ratings are strong maybe they'll take on the entire series.
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Old 14 Nov 2010, 15:14 (Ref:2790224)   #36
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y world wide, how come 10,000 slots weren't filled for the streaming?

Speed is available to 80 Million Homes in America. I believe Versus reaches slightly less than that. I don't think it will make much of a difference in overall numbers.

The difference is that Versus I believe is willing to pay for it. Where before Speed and ALMS worked together to get the time on the channel paid for with sponsors. This wouldn't be the first time Versus has approached the ALMS to host its races. That has been confirmed by both Murphy The Bear and Hindy, Versus talked to the ALMS a few years ago.

The four sprint races they'll have is likely a trial run. I don't know if the channel wanted to commit to resources (read:$$$) to longer races without knowing how the ILMC effects Sebring or how a 6 hour race will do in ratings.

If ratings are strong maybe they'll take on the entire series.
Versus will not be paying. The other difference is that Speed is available in many countries outside of the US. Versus is not. (Including Canada)
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Old 15 Nov 2010, 19:31 (Ref:2791243)   #37
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Versus will not be paying. The other difference is that Speed is available in many countries outside of the US. Versus is not. (Including Canada)
Versus is OLN in Canada. Versus changed its name from OLN in the States when they got the NHL contract to go from outdoors channel to sports channel. Obviously you guys don't have the NHL on Versus/OLN there because you have CBC/RDS/TSN with the national NHL contracts in Canada. But you might get these races on OLN. (Who carries Indycar there in Canada?)
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Old 15 Nov 2010, 19:42 (Ref:2791247)   #38
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Versus is OLN in Canada. Versus changed its name from OLN in the States when they got the NHL contract to go from outdoors channel to sports channel. Obviously you guys don't have the NHL on Versus/OLN there because you have CBC/RDS/TSN with the national NHL contracts in Canada. But you might get these races on OLN. (Who carries Indycar there in Canada?)

Indycar was on TSN2, having purchased the rights from Versus. We don't get Indycar on OLN.
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Old 15 Nov 2010, 20:56 (Ref:2791298)   #39
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Anyone think that the fact that IMSA doesn't have a set TV lineup is the reason why Audi of America, and even Audi AG and Audi Sport themselves have been reluctant to sign of on the ALMS program for 2011. The fact that IMSA didn't announce a TV schedule at PLM and Audi's announcment that the ALMS program is now unlikely to happen just prior doesn't just seem to be coincidence if one's a conspiracy theorist, though it might be true--both Audi and Peugeot have complained to the ACO about Eurosport's poor coverage, and Audi favored the ALMS in the past over the LMS in part because of the TV package that the ALMS had with Speed in North America and Motos TV in Europe.
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Old 18 Nov 2010, 05:21 (Ref:2792430)   #40
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Whether a few individuals are anorak enough to hang around a forum and type tomes about the ALMS like the idea of - and will watch - streaming video has absolutely nothing to do with whether sponsors will agree that such exposure has value. Whether those few anoraks will watch such coverage is completely irrelevant to the "business of racing."

The streaming ALMS coverage of Laguna Seca drew will under 10,000. One tenth of at Nielsen rating point is approximately 100,000 television sets. So the equivalent rating was less than .01. How much to do suppose an advertiser will pay for that. If you own a racing teams, how do you present that to the sponsor you need to contribute $1,000,000 or more for the upcoming season?

Perhaps worse, since this is all speculation, how do you feel about answering "I don't know," when asked by that sponsor how much mass media exposure he can expect in the 2011 season?
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Old 18 Nov 2010, 11:06 (Ref:2792543)   #41
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Whether a few individuals are anorak enough to hang around a forum and type tomes about the ALMS like the idea of - and will watch - streaming video has absolutely nothing to do with whether sponsors will agree that such exposure has value. Whether those few anoraks will watch such coverage is completely irrelevant to the "business of racing."

The streaming ALMS coverage of Laguna Seca drew will under 10,000. One tenth of at Nielsen rating point is approximately 100,000 television sets. So the equivalent rating was less than .01. How much to do suppose an advertiser will pay for that. If you own a racing teams, how do you present that to the sponsor you need to contribute $1,000,000 or more for the upcoming season?

Perhaps worse, since this is all speculation, how do you feel about answering "I don't know," when asked by that sponsor how much mass media exposure he can expect in the 2011 season?
Right TWK -

Streaming is the future, the question becomes do you want to get in front of that train or get ran over?

Less than 10,000 watched the stream and that could be for many reasons. One I can surely think of is 98% of the TV's in America are NOT connected to the internet. People still separate TV Watching from Streaming Content when I actually see no difference other than how you access it. Of course it doesn't help when the networks and some streaming services blow Google TV devices because the networks want some type of payment.

Some facts from the World Cup earlier this year -

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ESPN is estimating 99.2 million people have "consumed" 2010 FIFA World Cup content across all ESPN platforms during the first 10 days of the tournament.

The data, compiled by ESPN research, working with data from Knowledge Networks and Nielsen, shows that of those who have consumed content on ESPN and ABC, 97 percent have watched on TV, 27 percent have used the Internet, 11 percent have listened to radio, 6 percent have used mobile and 4 percent have read ESPN: The Magazine.

Breaking the data down further, on an average day, 64 percent of ESPN/ABC's audience watched only on television; 27 percent were exposed on TV and some other platform; and 9 percent consumed the World Cup solely on another platform other than TV.
The "other platform" is assuming the stream (ESPN3). In America its available anywhere you can get on broadband internet and supports Flash content. That is increasingly becoming cell phones and other mobile devices as well (net tablets, Ipad, cellphones with large displays, etc)

But almost 30% of viewers combined sources to watch the World Cup.

If the rumors are close to true, putting the biggest race of the year on ESPN3 if you can not get a reasonable deal elsewhere is good and has wide access.

As for the other races, putting Petit on the web and having a tape delayed show a week later just doesn't sound good.

The sprint races on Versus makes sense and we should support that regardless. For those that get it, watch it, order it. For those that don't start emailing Versus the minute its announced.
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Old 18 Nov 2010, 16:31 (Ref:2792709)   #42
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Whether a few individuals are anorak enough to hang around a forum and type tomes about the ALMS like the idea of - and will watch - streaming video has absolutely nothing to do with whether sponsors will agree that such exposure has value. Whether those few anoraks will watch such coverage is completely irrelevant to the "business of racing."

The streaming ALMS coverage of Laguna Seca drew will under 10,000. One tenth of at Nielsen rating point is approximately 100,000 television sets. So the equivalent rating was less than .01. How much to do suppose an advertiser will pay for that. If you own a racing teams, how do you present that to the sponsor you need to contribute $1,000,000 or more for the upcoming season?

Perhaps worse, since this is all speculation, how do you feel about answering "I don't know," when asked by that sponsor how much mass media exposure he can expect in the 2011 season?
Well Cable TV is old hat. There was just an article I saw yesterday about the massive drop off in subscribers and the industry starting to have a panic about it.

We are definitely in a transition phase in terms of how our media works, but I think if you don't have streaming content at some point you are left behind.

Personally myself I have not had cable for years. The only time I see cable tv is when I am traveling or visiting a relatives home. Just about every major network now, including cable networks has on demand streaming via their website. Then there is also iTunes and torrents for obscure stuff like the finnish rally championship. I like on demand or downloadable content that is easy to find and that I can watch what I want.

I don't know what the future is exactly in terms of the exact technology, but I do know cable tv as we have known it for 30 years is out of date and on the way out.

Whether ALMS is on speed or versus, couldn't care because unless it's available online I wont be seeing it.

If you look at a crappy series like grand am, what does it pull on Speed, .1 or .2, big whoop. I think for the ALMS to succeed in the media market you've got to get beyond the bog standard regular old broadcasts buried on a network like speed.
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Old 18 Nov 2010, 17:44 (Ref:2792740)   #43
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World Cup viewership compared to ALMS? You've got to be kidding, dj.

If you're the organization that needs a revenue stream or the team that needs a sponsor, "getting out in front of the train" means absolutely NOTHING.

What a streaming will be worth in five years - or even two - means nothing to a team that needs a sponsor NOW. By the time your streaming has any value, your series will be gone and your teams will be out of racing (or in another series that gives them the exposure their sponsors REQUIRE).

This is not an "optional" thing, boys and girls. You want a series, it (and its teams) NEED to make money. End.
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Old 18 Nov 2010, 18:05 (Ref:2792756)   #44
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World Cup viewership compared to ALMS? You've got to be kidding, dj.

If you're the organization that needs a revenue stream or the team that needs a sponsor, "getting out in front of the train" means absolutely NOTHING.

What a streaming will be worth in five years - or even two - means nothing to a team that needs a sponsor NOW. By the time your streaming has any value, your series will be gone and your teams will be out of racing (or in another series that gives them the exposure their sponsors REQUIRE).

This is not an "optional" thing, boys and girls. You want a series, it (and its teams) NEED to make money. End.
Exactly. When a potential sponsor asks what sort of exposure they have, what do you say?

"Oh, it's on the web".

"oh, okay, what sort of hitrate do you have?"

"Well, uh, they capped at 10k, but don't hit that".

So, exposure of under 10 thousand people, and you want how many million to put my name on a car?
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Old 18 Nov 2010, 21:54 (Ref:2792863)   #45
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You'e problably aware of it that a TV coverage contract is one point but definitely not the only motive for a company to decide on sponsorship...

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Old 18 Nov 2010, 22:25 (Ref:2792873)   #46
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You'e problably aware of it that a TV coverage contract is one point but definitely not the only motive for a company to decide on sponsorship...

Of course not, it's the ALMS, we know the only sponsors are the businesses that the team owners already have. We're just talking the make believe world where a sports car team might get an outside business to actually pay them to be on the car.
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Old 18 Nov 2010, 22:37 (Ref:2792880)   #47
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Of course not, it's the ALMS, we know the only sponsors are the businesses that the team owners already have. We're just talking the make believe world where a sports car team might get an outside business to actually pay them to be on the car.
a) That's not actually true.
b) Even it it was, would that somehow be better than being co-erced through tied selling to "sponsor" a sportscar team?
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Old 19 Nov 2010, 02:47 (Ref:2792952)   #48
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Exactly. When a potential sponsor asks what sort of exposure they have, what do you say?

"Oh, it's on the web".

"oh, okay, what sort of hitrate do you have?"

"Well, uh, they capped at 10k, but don't hit that".

So, exposure of under 10 thousand people, and you want how many million to put my name on a car?
I love the summary!
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Old 19 Nov 2010, 02:49 (Ref:2792953)   #49
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Of course not, it's the ALMS, we know the only sponsors are the businesses that the team owners already have. We're just talking the make believe world where a sports car team might get an outside business to actually pay them to be on the car.
And a perfect prescription to go out of business. Speaking of "make-believe" worlds, anyone who thinks that you can indefinately run a "world class" series like that clearly lives in one. It's the "privateers as the backbone" thing gone amuck.
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Old 19 Nov 2010, 02:53 (Ref:2792954)   #50
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picchiofan will be happy to know (vindicated?) that sponsors are moving in significant numbers to Grand Am. The next example will be the Aten Motorsports Ferrari Rolex 24 entry the Bear tipped you to on Wednesday night. The principals aren't ready to announce sponsors, but that will be fun (particularly for Murphy).
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