Thunder Saloons

[Rod Birley]

I have to apologise for my errors, I haven’t got a clue really...

However, it appears that the web site is no working, and I have no idea how I fixed it!!!

It's virtually up-to-date, just missing the report from May 19th. Off to Germany this week to compete in the Young Timer 500km, will report ASAP on return

Regards to all

Sue

www.hotrodbirley.care4free.net

[Rod Birley]

I can't even get that right!!!!

It should read However, it appears that the web site is NOW working,....

[Stacy]

Originally posted by Rod Birley
I can't even get that right!!!!

It should read However, it appears that the web site is NOW working,....

Yep, seems to be fine now.

Interesting what you say about the rear diffuser on the Honda - have you tested it out yet ?

I was tempted to work something out on my RX7, but I discounted it on the basis that the ride height was too high, and outright speeds too low.

Cheers

Stacy

[Talyllyn]

Obviously touched a few nerves here!
It looks like someone can't take criticism so I'll not be posting here anymore.
BTW - I saw the racing at Brands at the weekend and didn't see any of the talent that was promised.

[Stacy]

Originally posted by Talyllyn
Obviously touched a few nerves here!
It looks like someone can't take criticism so I'll not be posting here anymore.
BTW - I saw the racing at Brands at the weekend and didn't see any of the talent that was promised.

What do you race by the way ?

[Chris Griffin]

Yeh Talyllyn, what "talents do you have then?

[Nissan]

Without wishing to jump on the band wagon to have a pop at Talylln, I think last weekends races for Rod sums up an earlier point from Garry, the level of competition and machinery in Formula Saloons is of such a level where a slight change in set up or even tyres can knock you many places back on the grid, Rod experienced a similar weekend to ourselves at Pembrey where small changes pushed us backwards not forwards.

This may not be the same in some of the other series Rod runs in, but as Stacy says inform us of what you race because as the saying goes 'don't knock it till you try it'.

[Stacy]

While I should be big and clever enough to let it go, I find the attitude quite irritating.

I seem to recall at a meeting of the SW BARC at Brands a while ago someone was piping up complaining about Mr Birley. The conversation went round the point that they didn't like him winning. It subsequently transpired that once removed, all that happened was that someone else won every weekend instead. This was apparently OK, since the guy who was complaining about RB was the one now winning..

I piped up then and suggested that this guy doesn't have a problem with 4wd cars, he has a problem with RB and if he disconnected 2 of his wheels he'd still win - because he's quick.

Anyway, on a similar note there have long been rumblings in the club with people being fed up with Brian Steven's XJS waltzing away into the distance at every CTCRC meeting.

I objected to this type of moaning then as much as I do now, on the basis that rather than looking at the quick guys and whining and working out how to slow them down, I spent a considerable amount of time, effort, thought, planning and consideration, not to mention expenditure looking at every last part of my package and improving that instead.

So while with double the power and a class A car against my class C, Brian is always going to disappear when he can get the power down, on increasing occasions I've matched or beaten his times (Pembrey, Croft) and given him a thoroughly hard time outright (Brands Pre-90 for example).

I still think there is loads of time to come too, from me and the car. I can't understand why there is this tendancy for the weak willed to be outpsyched so easily, and make excuses for themselves. Half of this game is development, after all.

Now it's one thing this coming from a competitor, but if as I suspect it comes from a back seat driver I think my head will explode. Every one of the people on the grid are prepared to go out and do their thing in front of a crowd at a risk of looking very daft. In doing so they have shown a great deal of balls and should be respected for that.

Invariably, the people I've met with the biggest chip on their shoulder about how good they are if only they had a car, or "Well, anyone would win in that car" are misguided and driven by bitterness.

Almost without exception the timekeepers do not agree with them when they do get behind a wheel, and I allow myself a small smile when the results they hate keep coming and stick in their throat. They get difficult to explain away after a while.

Which leads me back to RB. Rod, the best thing to do is carry on winning.

There, that's that off my chest - I'll get off my soapbox now!

[Stephen Green]

Well said Stacey. Or, to put it another way, put up or shut up to the guy complaining. I got the distinct impression the person was a spectator rather than a competitor?

[Kawalski]

I like the comments, Stacey. I saw you racing at Brands two weeks ago, and was thoroughly impressed by you and your Mazda. It only goes to show what can be achieved.

Quite clearly people racing at club level are not professional racing drivers. They are the ultimate enthusiasts to whom armchair fans can only aspire, and therefore command respect. The wide variety of talent in terms of driving and engineering make it what it is. Brian Stevens may dominate his classes in the CSCC, and Rod in SEMSEC, but there can be no doubts about the quality of machinery and racing throughout the field. The CSCC races in particular have big grids of a large variety of cars that produce better racing than at any professional level. If some drivers keep winning praise them for it - they deserve it for the time and effort put into the preparation of their cars, not to mention their skill in driving: as Garry said earlier, all that is required is for the others to raise their game.

Club-level saloon car racing rules. Keep it up Rod, Stacey, Garry et al.

[Stacy]

Originally posted by Kawalski
Club-level saloon car racing rules. Keep it up Rod, Stacey, Garry et al.

Very kind, thankyou.

I think the underlying statement to make is that money certainly oils the wheels, but you simply can't buy success.

Anyone who is finishing in the top 5 of a club racing grid in this country can drive, and drive well. They are good drivers in good well set up cars. Full stop. Saying otherwise suggests residency in fairytale land, and is insulting to the other people on the grid trying to get there.

There are those who'll finish in the top 5 of one-make series too, and to those I formally doff my cap!

Cheers

Stacy (Note the lack of an 'e')

[Stephen Green]

Sorry Stacy, I too was guilty of the 'E' in your name. I agree with all you say about talent. Much as many of us believe we could go just as fast, in reality most of us would 'poop our pants' if we sat beside a regular racing driver, flat through say Paddock Hill Bend. Keep up the good work and thank you for entertaining us at race meetings.

[Kawalski]

Soz about that, Stacy.

[Stephen Green]

Kawalski, would that be a Polish name per chance?

[Kawalski]

Yes, but not mine: just a cybername

[Rod Birley]

Wow,obviously Talyllyn does not like me, wonder what he thinks about Mike Roberts. Anyway "nissan" hit the nail on the head with regard to Formula Saloons. The series is VERY competitive with 4 different winners from 4 races so far. Our set uo for the first race at Brands was for a wet race but it dried up,however in practice I was black flagged for alledgedly driving the wrong car!!!!. The programme showed the Escort whereas I had entered the Honda (the Escort would have been a better choice).So I missed half the qualifying session and things went downhill from there but hey-ho thats racing and we all make mistakes.
With regard to Stacy's comment I chose to race in Thundersaloons and really had to raise my game to compete against the works Vauxhall Carlton but I didn't give up trying. Each year we did a bit of developement and built new projects. Some worked and some didn't. We nearly got it right with the Mazda RX7 but the gearbox was not strong enough, and then came the Honda Prelude and I finally won the championship.The downside was it cost me my marriage and a lot of money and the championship was dropped after a lot of promises from the organisers.
At least Formula saloons is being steered by the drivers and is gaining in popularity a bit like the CSCC who have certainly got some good variety of cars.
In answer to the aerodynamic question I don't know yet because Brands was not a good day for us although a photo from CTP shows a mean looking rooster tail in the rain behind my car!

[Stephen Green]

I remember when you first raced the Prelude Rod, before then Pate Stevens used to win just about every race. Having said that, it was a beast of a car and it's a shame it's not still racing.

[Stacy]

Originally posted by Rod Birley
We nearly got it right with the Mazda RX7 but the gearbox was not strong enough,

Rod,

The RX7 - Tell me allllllllllll about it!

Stacy

[Tony_Simpson]

The RX7 was more in looks than name, as it had a cosworth turbo engine in it. From what I remember it was a damm impressive car, built to the thunderslaoon regs at the time, ie big arches to fit big slicks, aeropackage, big diff etc, etc. There are a couple of pictures on page 2 of this thread.

Does any one know where the Pete Stevens Carlton, the Mazda RX7 and any of the other Thundersaloons have got to over the years. I know that this was asked earlier in the thread, but not many answers came out of it.

[Rod Birley]

When Mike Wilson first built the RX7 (Jim Morgan did all the work) he bought a GAA V6 engine from me. When I joined in the project I provided a RS500 Cosworth turbo unit. Unfortunately the gearbox was only a small hewland one and not designed to take the extra torque. I then moved on to the Honda project and Mike joined forces with Paul Bailey, and the last time I heard this is where the car languishes.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Several years ago in Australia, the Colourscan team ran a series IV RX7 with Sierra Cosworth turbo power in the
Australian Sports Sedan Championship (quite similar regs to Thundersaloons), the car showed a lot of potential but they just couldn't seem to get it sorted.

[Rod Birley]

Hi David. I think Robin Hooker's Escort Cosworth eventually ended up in Sports Sedans in Australia. When I saw your series in Adelaide V8s seemed to rule the roost has anything else challenged them. By the way my Honda Prelude is for sale completely rebuilt and ready to go. So far it is only non super tourer to win a round (three wins last year).

[Jim Lamb]

Originally posted by Stephen Green
I must say that I miss the old Thundersaloons, they were always great to watch especially at Brands with Pete Stevens Bertec Vauxhall Carlton being one of my favourites. Time to go and sit in the corner and dream of days gone by...ho hum.

The Carlton still exists, at least it did 18 months ago tucked away in the back of Pete Stevens Body Shop. Seem to remember Derek Bell driving it originally?
As you say Stephen, those were the days!

If I can remember back that far I am sure they ran at one of the Birmingham Super Prix meetings as a support race.

Happy Days!!!!!!!!

Stay Safe, regards, Jim Lamb

[Stephen Green]

Hi Jim and welcome to Ten-Tenths. Unfortunately I started marshaling the year they stopped the Birmingham Super Prix and never managed to get to the race. My memories of Pete's car are mainly at Brands when it always put on a great show.

Rod, what are you going to do without the Prelude. Stick to the Escort or do you have another cunning plan up your sleeve?

[Stephen Green]

Just an after thought. Wouldn't it be great if Lord March were to invite Pete Stevens to run the Carlton at the Goodwood Festival of Speed! I watched with fond memories last year as Gerry Marshall was re-united with "baby bertha" at the FOS. To see him run the car up the hill 'balls out' once again bought a lump to my throat.