TCR Australia 2022

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

So maybe s5000 is like an oak tree, we need to nurture a small acorn that in a decade or so could be huge. Meanwhile its a support race

Could be pal - in all honesty, who knows what the sport will look like in 10 years - could be racing sail powered billy karts. I know what you mean though.

Originally Posted by cavvy

More like Pete Geoghegan, Norm Beechey, /Tasman days ..

The Tasman Series continued through until 1975 - by then the Touring Cars really were in the ascendancy in terms of popular support.

Anyway, back on topic - how about them TCRs eh?

[Alan52]

I don’t think any open wheeler formula can get widespread commercial or crowd interest.For anyone outside the diehards they are competing with 23 F1 Grand Prix a year and will never gain traction.
Look at the other open wheeler series in Europe running outside the F1 meetings or the negligible tv ratings of Indycar in the US.
As good as the cars are there are few people in the position to stump up $30,000-40,000 a weekend to run S5000 and the grid sizes are running in the wrong direction.

[bloxsidgemotorsport]

its interesting that open wheel racing on the tarmac struggles big time, yet over on the dirt speedway track Sprintcars absolutely dominate here compared to any sedan class.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by bloxsidgemotorsport

its interesting that open wheel racing on the tarmac struggles big time, yet over on the dirt speedway track Sprintcars absolutely dominate here compared to any sedan class.

Historically that has always been the case, Liverpool speedway was hugely popular in its day. Speculation as to what happens to motorsport leads to the question of what happens to TCR when the curtain falls on ICE's beginning in 2025, that being the time when manufacturers are saying development of ICE's stops.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Casper

Historically that has always been the case, Liverpool speedway was hugely popular in its day. Speculation as to what happens to motorsport leads to the question of what happens to TCR when the curtain falls on ICE's beginning in 2025, that being the time when manufacturers are saying development of ICE's stops.

Development of NEW engine families doesn't mean existing engines won't continue to be developed. Not uncommon to have engine families last 15+ years.

Like the EA888 engine in the VAG TCR cars.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Development of NEW engine families doesn't mean existing engines won't continue to be developed. Not uncommon to have engine families last 15+ years.

Like the EA888 engine in the VAG TCR cars.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

No vehicle to be sold with an ICE after 2030 in most if not all of Europe and VW for one has said ICE development is limited to improvements for Euro 7 emissions and that is all. To suggest that any ICE race series has a bright future is head in the sand stuff. California has set a 2035 date which is about the latest of all the major markets and they drive all of the US market. Deny it all you want but the change is going ahead.

[Mixer]

California literally leads the world on this stuff.

Nascar raced with carbs until very recently. People buy shopping trolleys and SUVs. Should we outlaw GT racing because it isn't what people buy?

ETCR is fun to watch but it's also absurdly short and artificial, so much so it's almost impossible to watch.

If they had a full field and races that were not so contrived it might be fun.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Could be pal - in all honesty, who knows what the sport will look like in 10 years - could be racing sail powered billy karts. I know what you mean though.

According to this article my suggestion of sail power could be closer than I thought - lucky guess huh?

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Mixer

California literally leads the world on this stuff

No, it leads the US, Europe is way out in front with plans to exterminate the ICE for road vehicles.

[Mixer]

Fabs back for Tassie:
https://www.touringcars.net/2022/03/...-tcr-australia

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Fabs back for Tassie:
https://www.touringcars.net/2022/03/...-tcr-australia

Starting in Tassie will give the rest of a field a decent head start.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

So maybe s5000 is like an oak tree, we need to nurture a small acorn that in a decade or so could be huge. Meanwhile its a support race

The fuel tank is the size of the original Formula 3 car, so I don't think S5000 can do full distance races in the current form.

Even even there is refuelling, what is the range of the cars? How many stops would be required for a standard 250-300km race?

I'd very much be in favour of increasing the downforce levels closer to F2 or Indycar. Even if the full package could only be used at Grade 2 circuits, and then a lower downforce level (& detuned engine output) had to be put back on to reduce corner speeds (& straight speeds) for Grade 3 circuits. This would cost very little, just a little CFD from a contractor and then some moulds & bodywork production (akin to any time attack car which have far more elaborate aero kits), and would instantly make the S5000 cars much faster around a lap.

Those two categories are about 12-16 seconds per lap slower on a ~1:30 F1 lap respectively, and even with similar downforce, the S5000 would still be slower again than F2 or Indycar as S5000 of course uses a much heavier and less powerful production-based engine, the Holinger gearbox shifts more slowly than a XTrac or Hewland, and also the S5000 generally has less development & sophistication... The whole S5000 package would still be more rudimentary, which is fine, that doesn't mean S5000 couldn't headline the Adelaide Grand Prix or the Gold Coast Grand Prix.

I don't really understand why the organisers insisted on the cars having such a low downforce level and therefore such slow corner speeds for a car of that type (they have shortened diffuser length compared to the original F3 car, they use the original F3 front wing, and they have a fairly small single tier dual-element rear wing without a beam wing). It would be trivial to add more of a standard F2/indycar-type aero package.

Originally Posted by cavvy

A few names is the first step ... who & who pays ?

The crux is that it doesn't cost a whole lot more to run a car for a season of F2 than for a season of ATCC. So it would just require a shift in commercial support from the ATCC to the ADC. The S5000 class would of course take over as the headline category at events like the Adelaide Grand Prix, Newcastle Grand Prix, Townsville Grand Prix, Surfers Paradise Grand Prix etc.

With the support of the domestic auto makers, Japan manages to run the Super Formula and SuperGT championships side-by-side. The German auto makers also have their old DTM racing engines designed to that same 2.0 turbo regulation, so I think DTM-organiser Berger was perhaps asleep at the wheel with not creating a European Super Formula series featuring Audi, BMW et al.

The issue is, of course, are people even interested in watching F1 rejects (as well as juniors yet to make it) race open-wheelers outside of the established USAC/Indycar series in a bigger market (itself having conceded the title of America's premier motorsport category to NASCAR upon splitting into two series)...? A series of B-grade drivers not good enough for F1 is perhaps a hard sell.

On the other hand, Halliday and Reid did have quite a lot of support in NZ (both from the public and commercially) when racing in the F3000-level A1 GP series so who knows! Perhaps open wheel racing below F1, such as a Tasman series, does have potential for commercial & public interest?

[V8 Fireworks]

TLDR; First step, put a decent level of downforce on, that would cost very little, and dramatically increase the advantage of S5000 over touring cars in terms of lap speed and spectacle. Second step, look into getting a custom made tub produced -- ideally from an Australian supplier if one exists -- so the cars would have a decent size fuel tank and have at least the potential to do longer races should the commercial opportunity arise.

At least in theory a S5000 with a production engine and a standard racing transaxle, and no other exotic componentry in it, shouldn't cost any more to run than a ATCC touring car. Yet it should be much faster (with proper downforce levels) and more spectacular.

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by Casper

No vehicle to be sold with an ICE after 2030 in most if not all of Europe and VW for one has said ICE development is limited to improvements for Euro 7 emissions and that is all. To suggest that any ICE race series has a bright future is head in the sand stuff. California has set a 2035 date which is about the latest of all the major markets and they drive all of the US market. Deny it all you want but the change is going ahead.

The questions that grips me are:

Where does all this extra power come from?

Will existing power grids cope with the extra load demand? What we saw recently in Texas was pretty scary. In NZ, we'd have to do some serious beefing up, given that the bulk of our power is generated in the South Island.

What will happen to all the batteries at their end-of-life?

Where will all the extra battery ingredients come from? No wonder China pandered up to Al Quaeda. Maybe America left just a bit too soon.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Just Do It!

The questions that grips me are:

Where does all this extra power come from?

Will existing power grids cope with the extra load demand? What we saw recently in Texas was pretty scary. In NZ, we'd have to do some serious beefing up, given that the bulk of our power is generated in the South Island.

What will happen to all the batteries at their end-of-life?

Where will all the extra battery ingredients come from? No wonder China pandered up to Al Quaeda. Maybe America left just a bit too soon.

Norway does not seem to have a grid supply problem but I have no knowledge of them having done any grid development to prevent it, maybe they have.

A further bit of news that has been announced in recent days is that Ford have for all intents and purposes split the company into two divisions for electric and ICE development and production. This bodes well for ICE outside of Europe or maybe it doesn't and they expect the ICE division to wither and die.

[Alan52]

The 2 Hour GEM highlights package is on at 10am on Wednesday.Hardly the prime time they were talking about.
Also noticed that GO s showing 1 Hour highlights packages of Sebring WEC and Texas Indycar this week.

[Alan52]

What a joke.
Although my electronic program guide said I’d recorded Phillip Island what was screened were repeats of Getaway,quiz shows etc.
ARG and 9 both deserve thanks for killing off any remaining interest I had in the series.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Alan52

ARG and 9 both deserve thanks for killing off any remaining interest I had in the series.

Comical. And the ferals all want to tell me FTA isn't dead...

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

[Alan52]

I don’t think the fault is with 9.They showed the Indycar highlights as scheduled.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Alan52

What a joke.
Although my electronic program guide said I’d recorded Phillip Island what was screened were repeats of Getaway,quiz shows etc.
ARG and 9 both deserve thanks for killing off any remaining interest I had in the series.

Highlights on GEM today at 10am ESDT.

TV programming is a fickle business. Probably not has bad as SBS getting their weekends mixed up and not sending their OB crew to cover the final round of the AUSCAR / NASCAR series at the Thunderdome many moons ago.

But I can feel your pain.

[joeyt]

just a quick question guys what ever happened to the 2 kia tcr cars that went to new zealand a few years ago for chioce perforance racing

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by joeyt

just a quick question guys what ever happened to the 2 kia tcr cars that went to new zealand a few years ago for chioce perforance racing

TCR never got off the ground in NZ, so it's likely they've been sold off or sitting in a shed somewhere.

It's a shame the Hyundai/Kia thing didn't end up more like the VAG story in TCR, lots of different car shapes without a large investment.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by chavez

TV programming is a fickle business. Probably not has bad as SBS getting their weekends mixed up and not sending their OB crew to cover the final round of the AUSCAR / NASCAR series at the Thunderdome many moons ago.

That ranks as probably the best/worst in local Motorsport coverage

The best part was Bob’s explanation, trying to explain that SBS were never meant to be there because the contract ended at the second last round…

Meant we never got to see Brad Jones win his NASCAR title

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Mixer

TCR never got off the ground in NZ, so it's likely they've been sold off or sitting in a shed somewhere.

It's a shame the Hyundai/Kia thing didn't end up more like the VAG story in TCR, lots of different car shapes without a large investment.

For that story Hyundai didn't need Kia...i30 N TCR, Veloster N TCR and Elantra N TCR.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by FIRE

For that story Hyundai didn't need Kia...i30 N TCR, Veloster N TCR and Elantra N TCR.

But they are all in different markets for different reasons.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk